Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Cancer]

Assuming he participates in the inauguration on the 20th, the Secret Service had better check in the outgoing president for firearms before allowing him into the proceedings.

 

I also propose a name for yesterday's affair: "Beer Hall Putsch II".

[Sociotard]

The rioters brought flags and phones, few guns. Bombs, I suppose, but still not enough violence or preparation for violence to mark it a coup IMHO.

 

I was amused by the us-vs-them disconnect. Liberals point to the show of police force to BLM protesters in contrast to the the tame reaction the Trumpist rioters got. The Conservatives point to the schadenfreude for an unarmed woman killed vs the outrage over an unarmed black guy shot and paralyzed when he looked like he was going for a knife.

 

"Hold muh beer hall putsch"

[unclevlad]

11 minutes ago, Old Man said:

Found footage of the shooting of the woman, who was a Trump supporter.  A Secret Service agent clearly warned her (and the mob she was with) not to move past a barrier in the Capitol.  She promptly climbed the barrier. 

 

Meanwhile, the strange passivity of the official response during the attack have convinced European authorities that this was a for-real coup attempt, organized by the current occupant of the White House, with the support of certain law enforcement officials who deliberately left the Capitol undefended.

 

The failure to protect the Capitol is going to be put under an electron microscope.  There is no doubt in my mind that some high-level people are going to be fired;  if they were actively complicit, I think we're talking seditious conspiracy.  

 

The footage I saw connected to the shooting clearly showed that the rioters were smashing through the glass.  Against guns clearly drawn on the other side.

Fresh news:  Transportation Sec Elaine Chao is resigning.  CNN is bringing a point I've been considering...how does this affect any 25th Amendment effort?  They also mention whether an acting Cabinet-level officer can act.  And what if Trump starts firing Cabinet officers?

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, Sociotard said:

I was amused by the us-vs-them disconnect. Liberals point to the show of police force to BLM protesters in contrast to the the tame reaction the Trumpist rioters got. The Conservatives point to the schadenfreude for an unarmed woman who was actively involved in a violent insurrection at the nation's capitol killed vs the outrage over an unarmed black guy shot and paralyzed when he looked like he was going for a knife.

FTFY

[TrickstaPriest]

9 minutes ago, Simon said:

FTFY

 

Yeah.  A lot of people are going 'why are you guys reacting so badly' when there's a big difference between protests against violence from the cops in their own cities clashing with cops, and literally trying to attack (and probably kill) the governing bodies to literally install Trump as dictator for life.

 

None the least of which... do you (you as in the 'royal, general you' of the 'audience' I am speaking to) actually think installing Trump stands for something?  Other than Trump?

 

Whatever symbol you want to make of it is a clear lie because you know Trump doesn't actually care about any of it.  It's an effort deliberately to 'revolution' over Trump and what Trump wants, and nothing more.  Anything more meaningful or beneficial than that will not happen, will not come, because he does not care about any of it.  Just himself.

 

He even freaking said "I'll be there with you!" and went home to watch on TV and tweet about it

[unclevlad]

Biden is flat-out endorsing the argument that the response to the Capitol incursion would have been completely different had it been black protesters.

 

EDIT:  he's making a huge policy speech now, before the inauguration.  That's a first, but then, so is just about everything.  It's led up to his announcement he'll announce Garland for DoJ.    (edit)  AG.  

 

He's making it clear that restoring the DoJ is going to be a major component of his administration.

[TrickstaPriest]

More on why I keep on saying its the propaganda that's helping create this situation

 

From the day before the insurrection event

 

 

oh yes, he was apparently there for it

Plus this

 

 

[Matt the Bruins]

16 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

No.

 

Don't.

 

Don't you dare tell me that Betsy DeVos is on the way out unless you mean it.

 

Sorry, someone's going to have to dump a bucket of water over her for that to happen before Jan.  20th.

[unclevlad]

He was there, for sure.  Several pics of him.  We'll see if he gets arrested;  it wouldn't surprise me.  

 

And I don't think it'd be hard to say he was committing incitement;  the little hand-waving at the end is absolutely of the "nudge nudge wink wink know what I mean?" type.  The whole "but what else are you gonna do?" makes that "not that I encourage it" a complete crock.

 

 

[Pariah]

40 minutes ago, Matt the Bruins said:

Sorry, someone's going to have to dump a bucket of water over her for that to happen before Jan.  20th.

 

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, TrickstaPriest said:

 

None the least of which... do you (you as in the 'royal, general you' of the 'audience' I am speaking to) actually think installing Trump stands for something?  Other than Trump?

 

 

White power?

[Pariah]

I was listening to NPR on the way home yesterday and they were interviewing one of the Representatives from Missouri. She was calling out Republicans in the House, saying, in effect, "Why are you all doing this for Donald Trump, who not only wouldn't do the same for you, but who would throw you under the bus instead?"

[TrickstaPriest]

12 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

White power?

 

I doubt he even believes in that... I mean, other than the fact that he obviously is wholly fine with it and probably is more than a little racist.  But does he fervently 'believe and would advance this agenda at any cost'?  I don't think so?  But it's probably the only thing I can think of that he has advanced so thoroughly.  Other than that, what cause or agenda or aid has he provided at all?

[unclevlad]

21 minutes ago, Pariah said:

I was listening to NPR on the way home yesterday and they were interviewing one of the Representatives from Missouri. She was calling out Republicans in the House, saying, in effect, "Why are you all doing this for Donald Trump, who not only wouldn't do the same for you, but who would throw you under the bus instead?"

 

And who has done so with ally after ally after ally after ally after ally with ally after ally after ally after ally after ally with ally after ally after ally after ally after ally  with ally after ally after ally after ally after ally with ally after ally after ally after ally after ally.

The counter?  They aren't doing it for Trump.  They're doing it for themselves.  It might be that some do it out of fear of reprisal but others are choosing to pander to Trump's base.

And it was pointed out a few times just how stupid this probably is.  The only person who can count on Trump's base is Trump.  Perdue couldn't.  Loeffler couldn't.  IIRC, it was noted that the Republican congressional victories had larger margins than Trump got.  OK, I think that was CNN, so...I'd prefer to review the numbers.  But the Georgia runoffs showed quite a bit.  Even with all that was at stake, backing Trump til the end *did not work.*

[archer]

Additional resignations

 

Tyler Goodspeed, acting chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers

deputy national security advisor, Matt Pottinger

Melania Trump’s spokeswoman, Stephanie Grisham

Eric Dreiband, assistant attorney general in charge of the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department

Mick Mulvaney, special envoy to Northern Ireland (and one of Trump's many former Chiefs of Staff)

 

And I think I listed these two resignations yesterday but just as titles without their names.

Deputy White House press secretary Sarah Matthews

White House Social Secretary Rickie Niceta

 

Also Chao's resignation as Sec of Transportation doesn't take effect until January 11th. So she's still in play for 25th amendment purposes for the immediate future.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/07/trump-riot-fallout-officials-quit-over-capitol-mob-attack.html

 

 

[unclevlad]

2 hours ago, Matt the Bruins said:

 

Sorry, someone's going to have to dump a bucket of water over her for that to happen before Jan.  20th.

 

So who's the little dog?

[Hermit]

Members of Congress who backed Trump's coup attempt

[archer]

The White House on Thursday announced acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf's nomination to serve in a permanent capacity had been withdrawn, shortly after he called on President Trump to “strongly condemn” the violence that took place at the U.S. Capitol

 

Wolf's statement Thursday morning called it “tragic and sickening” and said it was “unacceptable” that some supporters of Trump resorted to violence “as a means to achieve political ends.”

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/533105-acting-dhs-secretary-says-trump-should-strongly-condemn-violence-at

[csyphrett]

3 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Yesterday was full of shocking, disgusting events.

 

But the worst, for me, was the parade of House members promoting multiple objections to the election results *after* the invasion.  I believe the final count was 137 House Republicans who voted to sustain the objection to the Pennsylvania electors.  That's a major warning shot across the bow, to me, saying they'll be as obstinate and obstructionist as the rules of the House allow, through the 2022 election.  It's also a major warning that Trumpism isn't going away at all;  that's just too much widespread support.

 

In the Senate, I suspect that Cruz and Hawley are likely to be the point men on things like impeding nominees, if nothing else.  The fact that most Senate Republicans rejected the push to overturn the election is encouraging, but Cruz and Hawley have shown they'll pander to Trump's base, and there's no reason to think they'll slow down.

Cruz has always been fecal matter. I remember a post from c-span where the senator from Colorado blasted for obstructing aid in a natural disaster. I was like Dude, forget the camera. It's okay to use the seven words. I would.

CES 

6 minutes ago, archer said:

The White House on Thursday announced acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf's nomination to serve in a permanent capacity had been withdrawn, shortly after he called on President Trump to “strongly condemn” the violence that took place at the U.S. Capitol

 

Wolf's statement Thursday morning called it “tragic and sickening” and said it was “unacceptable” that some supporters of Trump resorted to violence “as a means to achieve political ends.”

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/533105-acting-dhs-secretary-says-trump-should-strongly-condemn-violence-at

This is different from the Chad Wolf that told DHS to shoot up the Portland protestors

CES

[csyphrett]

And again Virginia Foxx and Ted Budd show their true colors. Two of the seven words go here

CES

[Old Man]

Actual patriots taking the electoral votes to safety minutes before the Senate chamber fell yesterday:

 

[Cygnia]

Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup and may have had help from federal law-enforcement officials

[archer]

You know, one thing which struck me about yesterday's armed mob was how little property damage there was.

 

In mean, a person with a car key could have destroyed almost every one of those historical paintings which line the hallways of the Capitol building. But apparently nothing like that happened.

 

It was as if the mob wanted to destroy our democratic republic rather than the buildings and decorations of our democratic republic.

 

Very different than, say, the armed mobs which ran wild through Baghdad's government buildings as that city fell to the invading US forces.

[Old Man]

33 minutes ago, Cygnia said:

Some among America's military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup and may have had help from federal law-enforcement officials

 

The damage to Amerca's standing in world politics from this is incalculable.  A failed attempted coup is still an attempted coup, and other countries would be foolish to assume it can't happen here again. 

[archer]

I don't think it was a deliberate coup attempt.

 

The people breaking into the Capitol building obviously had no idea what to do after they got inside or what they wanted. They took selfies, looted a little, and stood around gawking like tourists. They weren't breaking down doors and dragging out lawmakers to stand trial in a kangaroo court or anything like that.

 

Trump obviously incited them and I think that it was an attempt to change the narrative of his impending decisive defeat. But he didn't know what would happen and had no plan at all to capitalize on anything which might have happened.

 

He was just doing the same thing he's done every day: cause chaos and look to see if there's any way to profit from the chaos.

 

To have a coup attempt, you have to have a coup and an attempt (j/k). I don't think we had either.

 

 

Now I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who came into the Capitol building did so at Trump's orders. And that the various missing papers, computers, and incidentals from lawmakers' offices will end up in Trump's hands for him to try to make a buck from. Or through Trump's hands into Russian hands.