Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

First, the encouraging:

Fox viewers transformed after watching CNN for 30 days, report finds

 

 

Then, the disheartening:

What should Russia do with Ukraine? [Translation of a propaganda article by a Russian publication]

[DShomshak]

For the April 2, 2022 issues of The Economist, the cover shows a picture of Pres. Zelensky with the caption, "Why Ukraine must win." The lead article is about their interview with Zelensky, sharply drawing the contrast between him and Putin. Here are the last three paragraphs, which may offer some hope:
 

Quote

 

"It's not about being brave," he says. "I have to act the way I do." He did not prepare for the role of war hero. "If you don't know how to do something this way or that way, be honest and that's it. You have to be honest, so that people believe you. You don't need to try. You need to be yourself...And it's important not to show that you are better than who you are."

 

In Mr Putin's world, honesty is weakness. His power is based on secrecy and deception. Mystery and violence fuel his cult of authority. Mr Zelensky might be sitting in what his aides call a fortress, but his strength lies in his openness and his ability to hear and reflect what people want of him. It is the strength of Everyman.

 

Vasily Grossman, a Soviet novelist and war correspondent born in the small Jewish town of Berdychev in northern Ukraine, put it well in "Life and /fate," his vast novel about the second world war: "Human history is not about the battle of good struggling to overcome evil," he writes. "It is a battle fought by a great evil struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness. But if what is human in human beings has not been destroyed even now, then evil will never conquer."

 

Well, I hope so.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Iuz the Evil]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Then, the disheartening:

What should Russia do with Ukraine? [Translation of a propaganda article by a Russian publication]

Jesus Christ. 😟

[Lord Liaden]

Exactly.   It reads like it could have been written elsewhere in Europe, about ninety years ago. And this is published in an official state media organ addressed to the Russian people, so you know it's actual government policy they want the people to be ready for.

 

This could have a significant impact on how other world leaders respond to the war.

[Sociotard]

It's also frustrating because it makes it hard to point out that Ukraine does have an antisemitism problem. They elected a Jewish president just like the US elected a black president while still having a racism problem.

 

I looked it up.

https://global100.adl.org/map

Ukraine 38%

Russia 30%

USA 9%

 

Which I guess tells me Russia has nearly as bad a Nazi problem as Ukraine, but 38% is pretty bad. Not as bad as Turkey or Egypt, but they do have a problem.

[Lord Liaden]

Let's not get our definitions tangled. Nazism is not only anti-Semitism. Hitler's ethnic superiority doctrine was also directed against Slavs, which is why "Nazi" hits people from that part of the world harder than many others. Nazism also embraces fascism, which isn't necessarily anti-Semitic; and Russia is far more fascist today than Ukraine, and looks to be heading farther down that road.

 

What Russia is proposing -- partitioning Ukraine with one part under Russian rule, while Ukrainians who won't accept that will be deported to the other part -- is just ethnic cleansing with a bow on top. And we've already seen that Putin is prepared to do far worse than deportation.

[Cygnia]

The G.O.P.’s ‘Putin Wing’

[pinecone]

11 hours ago, Sociotard said:

It's also frustrating because it makes it hard to point out that Ukraine does have an antisemitism problem. They elected a Jewish president just like the US elected a black president while still having a racism problem.

 

I looked it up.

https://global100.adl.org/map

Ukraine 38%

Russia 30%

USA 9%

 

Which I guess tells me Russia has nearly as bad a Nazi problem as Ukraine, but 38% is pretty bad. Not as bad as Turkey or Egypt, but they do have a problem.

But you don't fix "wrong think" with rifles.

2 hours ago, Cygnia said:

The G.O.P.’s ‘Putin Wing’

Moscow Mitch! Say it ain't so!

[unclevlad]

18 hours ago, Iuz the Evil said:

Jesus Christ. 😟

 

I couldn't get through more than a few paragraphs.

 

Yeah  

 

I...just now realized something.  Or internalized something.  What my parents' generation really felt about the Nazis.  It was only intellectual before.  

[Pariah]

Because of course she did.

 

Marjorie Taylor Greene says she reported Jimmy Kimmel to Capitol Police after Will Smith joke

 

 

[tkdguy]

7 hours ago, Cygnia said:

The G.O.P.’s ‘Putin Wing’

 

Paywall.

[unclevlad]

17 minutes ago, Pariah said:

Because of course she did.

 

Marjorie Taylor Greene says she reported Jimmy Kimmel to Capitol Police after Will Smith joke

 

 

 

Of course.  This is the problem with thinking you can regulate, for example, Fox News' polemicists.  The other side will use the same tactics.  And Greene et al have no restraint whatsoever.

 

On the Putin Party comment...I read the story.  IIRC, the key points were that many Republicans have been turning away from Russia and Putin as the scope of his actions have become more clear...but there's still a faction that is embracing him.  They also put a considerable amount of the blame on Fox News and Tucker Carlson especially.  Some Republican leaders have been harsh;  McCarthy called Putin a ruthless dictator.  OTOH, Lindsey Graham merely called the pro-Putin faction "outliers"...which is just playing both sides, not supporting them but also not notably even criticizing them, much less denouncing or Heaven forbid, calling for them to be sanctioned in some manner.

This is beginning to feel like the real watershed event.  If we generally continue to not punish the extreme right who actively, willingly support Putin, then we have no chance, IMO, as a society.  If we reject them, then maybe there's a chance at restoring some semblance of balance.  Even Jan. 6th can be spun somewhat more readily than the Russian atrocities.

[Ternaugh]

40 minutes ago, tkdguy said:

 

Paywall.

 

Try this link: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/07/briefing/republican-party-putin-wing.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DJDm4diO4PAoWO-kHCIrBuf8Y52zWQTdkEKLY1WO031vJDPkooVAiurd2EhJEBaW0TmL6EY1kXjdjLTKxqtnjjdHW4I-Nyg7TvtRuNYGXqRPaO0HU-IFwy8Y9uIQyrxSYClfuVRbMm2dB42OwzRcwvHUd2byGKtvftDBh6MczXLU2Pr1lrBJwKHG3bjtWe6LkfcQhNCFygT3h34Gw06tI0K8pAde-kbEZmIJyi9O1XXm94L46pBIkzQ5zWkdhqsr3Pqx-Nwamm1jqaykIF6FHLo1Qe3kkBJqE&smid=url-share 

 

[TrickstaPriest]

Yeah, how distant are they as just a political maneuver when they'll still cuddle him and others like him right in the open?  ie- CPAC in Hungary

[Pariah]

The real problem, I think, is that we have a lot of disgusting excuses for human beings in this country - amoral, self-centered, entitled b@stards who see no harm in anything that ultimately benefits them (and their tribe). "Putin's invading Ukraine? No skin off my nose. Ukraine supported Hunter Biden, so whatever happens to them, they had it coming. Queer? That's not actually a thing. Men are men and women are women, end of story. Racism  schmasism, that black guy shouldn't have been skulking around in a white neighborhood." And so on.

 

And as long as these people vote, there will be politicians who will cater to them in order to win that vote. Because while politics is nominally about any number of things, ultimately it's about winning. Politicians are not above slumming for votes, in much the same way that the sea is not above the clouds. 

[unclevlad]

49 minutes ago, Pariah said:

Men are men and women are women  property, end of story.

FTFY

[Iuz the Evil]

On a lighter note…

[Lord Liaden]

Interesting to me that someone in Ukraine saw Red Dawn, and remembered it well enough to make that reference.

[Hermit]

Just now, Lord Liaden said:

Interesting to me that someone in Ukraine saw Red Dawn, and remembered it well enough to make that reference.

Americans just made the movie, Ukrainians are living it.  

[Old Man]

52 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Interesting to me that someone in Ukraine saw Red Dawn, and remembered it well enough to make that reference.

 

There are plenty of Americans on the front lines of that war, as well.

[Sociotard]

I'm actually impressed with Boris Johnson for going to Kyiv. I know he's mostly trying to put down his Covid party scandal, but it is still an impressive move.

[Lord Liaden]

I believe he's the first foreign head of state to physically visit Ukraine since this war started. I agree it's mostly a photo op to impress the voters back home, but it also has to be a morale booster for the Ukrainians.

 

But rather than being to Johnson's credit for courage and conviction, I take it more as a sign of the extent to which Ukrainians have regained control of that part of their country, and can guarantee safety and security.

[dmjalund]

29 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

I believe he's the first foreign head of state to physically visit Ukraine since this war started. I agree it's mostly a photo op to impress the voters back home, but it also has to be a morale booster for the Ukrainians.

 

But rather than being to Johnson's credit for courage and conviction, I take it more as a sign of the extent to which Ukrainians have regained control of that part of their country, and can guarantee safety and security.

Technically, The Queen is the UK's head of state

[Sociotard]

 

True. Though it would be badass if William started flying helicopters down there.

[unclevlad]

Nah, he's not nitpicking.  There IS a difference.  Head of state and head of government are 2 separate notions.  The Queen is the head of state;  the PM is the head of government.  There aren't many countries any more where the split actually exists, and sometimes the split's not as clear-cut as that.

 

Disclaimer:  a major pet peeve of mine is the sloppy use of language, so consider the above in that context.