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35 minutes ago, Old Man said:

I feel as though all the complaints in this thread miss the entire point of the film.  At any rate, it was far less sloppy than TFA.

 

Heh.  One wonders what the Interwebz would've done with Empire Strikes Back if it came out now.  :)

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A clone? Sure, clones are a part of the franchise's history...the same part that brought us boring parliamentary politics, Jar Jar Binks, midichlorians, and dialogue so painfully dull and stilted that it makes most X-rated movies look like Shakespeare by comparison.

 

I'm okay with Rey being a nobody.

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The real reason everything is "long, long ago" is because, in a galaxy in a constant state of conflict, filled with horrifying weapons of mass destruction, the inevitable happened, sooner or later.  In our era, that galaxy is lifeless, except for a few porgs and some droids.  

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2 hours ago, Pariah said:

A clone? Sure, clones are a part of the franchise's history...the same part that brought us boring parliamentary politics, Jar Jar Binks, midichlorians, and dialogue so painfully dull and stilted that it makes most X-rated movies look like Shakespeare by comparison.

 

Actually, clones, as a canonical (background) element of the franchise, go all the way back to the very first film. For nearly twenty years Lucas spoke of the "Clone Wars" as a central idea to the mythology, long before he ever inflicted the prequels upon the world. Your disdain/contempt for the prequels is completely justified IMO, but claiming that clones are guilty (of being a bad idea) by association is simply unfounded.

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47 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Yeah its weird, the way they talked about the Clone Wars I envisioned a long war far in the past.  Instead it was like a 1-week affair when Luke was a baby.

Once again I am baffeled how you could even get anywhere close to that interpretation.

 

We had a whole 5 season series detailing the clonewars. Wich is 2nd Tier canon by the way. The interactions between Obi-Wan and Anakin during EP 3 speak of years of shared combat experience/fighting together.

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Once again I am baffeled how you could even get anywhere close to that interpretation.

 

By the movies, in which the Clone Wars were basically over in one film and there was no reference to "years" of the "clone wars."   Just a long time spent together fighting people.

 

The big difference between you and me is that the first Star Wars film I saw was A New Hope.  Retconning everything after that doesn't make the impressions from that film any different.

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11 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

The big difference between you and me is that the first Star Wars film I saw was A New Hope.  Retconning everything after that doesn't make the impressions from that film any different.

My first Star Wars Film was Empire strikes back.

What, you think I am to young to have seen teh original trillogy first? You presume too much.

 

12 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

By the movies, in which the Clone Wars were basically over in one film and there was no reference to "years" of the "clone wars."   Just a long time spent together fighting people.

How much of "a long time spent together fighting people" is enough to asume "years of clone wars"?

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3 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Yeah its weird, the way they talked about the Clone Wars I envisioned a long war far in the past.  Instead it was like a 1-week affair when Luke was a baby.

 

2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

By the movies, in which the Clone Wars were basically over in one film and there was no reference to "years" of the "clone wars."   Just a long time spent together fighting people.

 

The big difference between you and me is that the first Star Wars film I saw was A New Hope.  Retconning everything after that doesn't make the impressions from that film any different.

 

I saw ANH in the theater in 1977 and probably have watched it once every year or two since.  In ANH, it was mentioned that Luke's father had been a pilot in the Clone Wars.  So, at best, it was a generation prior to ANH.  That's less far in the past than WWII is to us now. It would be equivalent to the first Gulf War from our 2017 perspective.  Beyond that, there's nothing else detailed about the Clone Wars in the OT. 

 

In AotC, at the end of the film, Yoda states that this war has just begun.  The war doesn't end until RotS, which takes place several years later. 

 

The prequel trilogy didn't retcon anything from the OT in regards to the Clone Wars simply because the OT had no real detail about them to retcon.

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2 hours ago, Netzilla said:

Beyond that, there's nothing else detailed about the Clone Wars in the OT. 

IIRC in RotJ, someone mentions when seeing Boba Fett that "they hadn't seen armor like that since the Clone Wars". We now know it is Mandalorian Armor, which is interesting in that the Mandalorians were fighting (at least in Star Wars: Rebels) for and then against the Empire leading up to ANH.

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7 minutes ago, death tribble said:

Too many rebels get killed.

Where did Snoke come from and how did he get the power ?

Where did the other disciples of Luke that Ben went with from the temple go ?

The First Order had it too much of their own way.

What was the point of Captain Phasma ?

 

This generation of rebels appear to very strongly believe in the virtues of self-sacrifice. They're deaths are intended, I think, to be seen as noble and honorable, rather than tragic.

 

Snoke seems to have been a McGuffin in character form. Looking for anything deeper (or more developed) than that will only frustrate you.

 

The mostly likely explanation is that the other disciples that went with Ben became the Knights of Ren.

 

Rian Johnson has gone on record as saying that he sees Captain Phasma as the Star Wars equivalent to Kenny from South Park. She will appear to die in every movie, only to appear whole again in the next. She is not an important character per se; she is mostly just shtick personified.

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22 minutes ago, Old Man said:

It's interesting to see people get so annoyed that VIII doesn't tell us who Snoke was or (conclusively) who Rey's parents are.  I wonder how audiences will react if we never find out.

Snoke looks like a guy who lost a lightsaber duel with Luke sometime between ROTJ and TFA.  

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In hindsight, it is obvious that Ben Solo made a Faustian bargain with Mephistopheles, er Snoke. The question to be answered is: if Kylo Ren (representing Dr Faustus) will be redeemed or damned. Vader-Faustus was redeemed. 

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21 hours ago, Christopher said:

You asume that the dreadnought was not using it's ventral thrusters to keep altitude, but relying entirely on centrifugal force. That is one of those things primitve pre-FTL civilisations and stationary sattelites have to do. This was a 8 Kilometer Orbit/Ground Siege Dreadnought capable of FTL in the middle of a combat. Being fuel efficient was the last thing on their mind.

 

So we have:

 - a military ship propably active fighting gravity by pushing itself upwards

 - the bombs got their initial impulse from the gravity field in the bomber that allows the crew to walk

 - the gravitational pull of the target ship.

 

That this was AIrcombat in space was pretty obvbious. I alrady mentioned that those T-Wings (was that the name?) were basically B-17 in Space.

Actually the shape of the gun turret gave it away. It screamed "old Warmovie" to me the moment I saw it. The way the bombs were arrayed simply confirmed it more.

 

They have full 3D Hologramms.

OLED screens? How primitive!

 

Of course on the mine planet they were going "oldschool", because that was simply the only gear around.

 

There's absolutely no evidence for the notion that the dreadnought was actively "hovering" rather than operating in orbit, nor that any other vessels were doing so.

 

This battle was just as non-sensical as every other space battle in Star Wars. (I mean, seriously--bombers? That can only drop their payloads at knife-fighting range? Maybe if they'd used missiles, or even just flung the bombs from a distance, they might not have had the whole bomber force wiped out.

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3 hours ago, death tribble said:

Riots. Devastation. Failed IRS returns.

Amongst other things

Why would the Imperial Reclamation Service fail to return? You think fans will camp old Sith Ruins to catch them?

 

4 hours ago, Netzilla said:

Especially considering how little background we had on the Emperor or Yoda in the OT.  Heck, the Emperor's name isn't even given in the OT.

But we still had at least his actions to judge him by. He was a master scheemer, having lured the rebels to Endor. All just to turn Luke.

 

Snoke was teased in EP7, wich is earlier then the Emperor or Doku.

Only to die in EP8, before he could show off anything.

He was "tell but not show".

 

33 minutes ago, sinanju said:

There's absolutely no evidence for the notion that the dreadnought was actively "hovering" rather than operating in orbit, nor that any other vessels were doing so.

 

This battle was just as non-sensical as every other space battle in Star Wars. (I mean, seriously--bombers? That can only drop their payloads at knife-fighting range? Maybe if they'd used missiles, or even just flung the bombs from a distance, they might not have had the whole bomber force wiped out.

That the weapones seem ridiculously impractical we agree on. But maybe it has a reason they used these? Maybe the enemy had a Point defense designed against Proton Torpedoes, and this weapon was one of the few that could get through?

I jsut read up on it. Apparently that Bomber is called a MG-100 StarFortress SF-17. And those bombs were drawn to the target magnetically:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MG-100_StarFortress_SF-17

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51 minutes ago, Christopher said:

Apparently that Bomber is called a MG-100 StarFortress SF-17. And those bombs were drawn to the target magnetically:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/MG-100_StarFortress_SF-17

 

"The modular bombing magazine, called the "clip" by the bomber's crew, would drop the bombs through sequenced electromagnetic plates in the clip, which propelled the bombs to "drop" in microgravity environments. The bombs would then be drawn magnetically to their targets."

 

Sounds like a bit of "artificial microgravity" magic is also involved.

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My biggest problem with the bombers is that they were so damn slow.  This was part of the pacing issues that plagued the whole movie.  I know that they dragged it out so that you could have the "lady has to get the control device thing and press the button" scene that I've seen in a ton of other movies. 

 

Compare how s-l-o-w-l-y the bombers flew over the big ship, compared to the bombing run versus the Death Star, or attacks against other big Imperial ships.  The bombers creeped along, eliminating any real sense of excitement.

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