Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[Pattern Ghost]

12 hours ago, Tjack said:

Business wise, I wonder what Marvel’s going to do?

 

They could pass the mantle to someone else. I don't see anyone else ever playing T'Challa in the MCU. He was as much the character as Robert Downey Jr. was Tony Stark. Seems like the only play they have.

 

They could also just drop the character from the MCU, but I don't think letting Wakanda die with the actor is a good idea, as there were too many other great Wakandan characters, and it'd be a step back from what they accomplished for representing black actors on screen.

[Ranxerox]

12 hours ago, Tjack said:

  
Business wise, I wonder what Marvel’s going to do?  He so nailed the character in at least three movies I for one can’t imagine anybody else taking the role, but BP was a big moneymaker and a sequel is already in the pipeline

 

9 minutes ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

They could pass the mantle to someone else. I don't see anyone else ever playing T'Challa in the MCU. He was as much the character as Robert Downey Jr. was Tony Stark. Seems like the only play they have.

 

They could also just drop the character from the MCU, but I don't think letting Wakanda die with the actor is a good idea, as there were too many other great Wakandan characters, and it'd be a step back from what they accomplished for representing black actors on screen.

 

I don't know.  From a story stand point, it is pretty straight forward.  Shuri is next in line to be the Black Panther and has worn that mantle in the comic books.  Moreover, I think that Letitia Wright has it in her to carry a big budget film.  However, without Chadwick Boseman there to do the handover and the shadow of his too young death hanging over picture, I don't see people emotionally accepting the film.

 

In order to make it work, they would need to the film about loss, pain, grief and ultimately rebuilding from there.  Are people willing to go to a super hero film where they won't just be expected to just get a little misty-eyed, but instead will be called upon to actually cry and cry a lot?

[Pattern Ghost]

6 minutes ago, Ranxerox said:

From a story stand point, it is pretty straight forward.  Shuri is next in line to be the Black Panther and has worn that mantle in the comic books.

 

That's what I was thinking when I said pass the mantle. I think Ms. Wright could carry a movie. Hopefully, the studio sees it the same way.

[Tjack]

    On top of everything else, Marvel lost a lot of their major players when their contracts ended. They killed off Stark & the Widow. De-hulked Banner and turned Cap into the all-american geezer.
     They better hope Helmsworth and Cumberbach don’t get cute at renegotiating time and that Eternals can grow some leading characters to star in the next batch of films.

I know they’ve got the Guardians of the Galaxy people but none of those characters can reasonably carry a story set on Earth.

[Lord Liaden]

There is another factor in the mix to consider. T'Challa was among the half of humanity dusted at the end of Infinity War. Wakanda had to move forward without him for five years. What state was it in when he returned? What would he have done if someone else was chosen king during his absence?

[Lord Liaden]

2 minutes ago, Tjack said:

    On top of everything else, Marvel lost a lot of their major players when their contracts ended. They killed off Stark & the Widow. De-hulked Banner and turned Cap into the all-american geezer.
     They better hope Helmsworth and Cumberbach don’t get cute at renegotiating time and that Eternals can grow some leading characters to star in the next batch of films.

I know they’ve got the Guardians of the Galaxy people but none of those characters can reasonably carry a story set on Earth.

 

I'm pretty sure Benedict Cumberbatch was signed to a multi-picture deal, that's SOP for Marvel lead casting. I don't expect Hemsworth to last much past Love and Thunder, if at all. Ditto the Guardians after their next movie. It's one more reason why Black Panther's continuity was so important.

 

OTOH Marvel just got their hands on all the X-Men- and Fantastic Four-related characters from Fox. Plenty of room for growth there.

[unclevlad]

Not only that, but passing the mantle generally is a process that takes considerable time.  The mantle being passed is the endgame, if I may use that;  the story leading up to it is crucial.  Take Thor's fall.  The roots are all the way back to the first movie, with the major impetus being in Ragnarok.  Steve Rogers' issues stretch through several films.  Passing the torch is a Very Big Deal.

 

I doubt Marvel has a clue yet on how to move forward.  I suspect they'll first try to find an actor who can step in...hard as that will be to accomplish, they have pulled off at least 2 examples of basically perfect casting, with Downey and Cumberbatch.  And 3 if you count Boseman;  I don't only due to lesser familiarity with the character.

 

3 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

There is another factor in the mix to consider. T'Challa was among the half of humanity dusted at the end of Infinity War. Wakanda had to move forward without him for five years. What state was it in when he returned? What would he have done if someone else was chosen king during his absence?

 

Yeah, but the overall tenor was, anyone positive enough to fill his shoes, wouldn't have argued with his return.  Would have to be a usurper.  That's not gonna go over well...in Wakanda, or with the audience.

 

[Lord Liaden]

In this case I'm thinking more of the character of T'Challa. If his country had moved on without him, if it was thriving under the guidance of a new king, I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to step aside. Maybe go on a quest to discover his own unique place in the world. Which would be a handy excuse to write him out of the story, at least long enough for Boseman's memory to fade sufficiently for another actor to take the role.

[Tjack]

21 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

In this case I'm thinking more of the character of T'Challa. If his country had moved on without him, if it was thriving under the guidance of a new king, I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to step aside. Maybe go on a quest to discover his own unique place in the world. Which would be a handy excuse to write him out of the story, at least long enough for Boseman's memory to fade sufficiently for another actor to take the role.

     A story problem is that in BP the “heart shaped herb” was destroyed with the last sample being used by T’Challa.  If you kill off or retire the character then you have no Black Panther.

[zslane]

Unless multiverse time travel shenanigans allow the return of the herb from some other timeline.

[Old Man]

I might still have a bit in the back of the freezer, behind that tub of cherry caramel ice cream we never finished. 

[L. Marcus]

Likely story. Unfinished ice cream is a myth.

[Lord Liaden]

The herb must have existed before the Wakandans cultivated it. I'd be very surprised if there weren't still examples in the wild. Or that they didn't preserve seeds or cuttings in case of accident or malice. Or that their advanced science couldn't clone it from any surviving genetic material.

 

I mean, those would be reasonable justifications even if this wasn't a comic-book universe, where wild coincidence is common.  

[unclevlad]

But doesn't that seem *extremely* contrived, even in the context of the MCU?  Traveling to an alternate dimension is non-trivial.  "Oh, I want to retire so let's embark on a cross dimensional Bill and Ted so we can find more."

 

It might well work if there was time to develop it.  No one would criticize a dimension-travelling storyline to find more, as a reasonable precaution.  But I'd still want the torch-passing to develop separately.  OR, combine the notions of Panther going off on a quest for more herb, as the best equipped to do it.  (One would LIKE to include Doc Strange, say, but....)  And it so happens that Weird Things Happen and it takes a while longer than anyone expected...boom!  Introduce the new actor.  Not ideal but I think the fans would understand.

 

 

[Greywind]

How was Banner de-Hulked? His arm got jacked up by using the Gauntlet. The Russo Brothers left that for whoever picks up Hulk later in a movie to deal with.

[Bazza]

If Boseman is the gentleman we think he is, I can’t see him not telling Marvel & Feige. I’m sure Feige planned a contingency, maybe film a few scenes handing over the BP mantle. This may have occurred when the cancer hit stage 4. 

 

If Marvel knew in advance, they could have greenlit the sequel and ‘rushed’ it through production, remember the Guardians sequel was greenlit before the first was released. 

 

Ergo, I do think this came as a big surprise to Marvel that is was so soon, as there still is plans for a sequel and Boseman was part of those plans.

 

 

[Greywind]

[Ranxerox]

6 hours ago, Tjack said:

     A story problem is that in BP the “heart shaped herb” was destroyed with the last sample being used by T’Challa.  If you kill off or retire the character then you have no Black Panther.

 

I've been thinking kinda of the opposite about the destruction of the "heart shaped herb".  Its absence allows other people to take on the mantle without a super awkward trip to the ancestral plane, where they get there and T'Challa is nowhere to be seen.  

 

Shuri would be reliant on her skills and her technology as she took up the role of Protector of Wakanda, but in her case that would be sufficient.  Admittedly, without the ancestral plane connection people would likely consider her claim to be the Black Panther weaker than those who came before, but that could be a plot point.

[Greywind]

Or it still grows somewhere in the wild where it was never found/cultivated/repotted.

[Spence]

50 minutes ago, Ranxerox said:

 

I've been thinking kinda of the opposite about the destruction of the "heart shaped herb".  Its absence allows other people to take on the mantle without a super awkward trip to the ancestral plane, where they get there and T'Challa is nowhere to be seen.  

 

Shuri would be reliant on her skills and her technology as she took up the role of Protector of Wakanda, but in her case that would be sufficient.  Admittedly, without the ancestral plane connection people would likely consider her claim to be the Black Panther weaker than those who came before, but that could be a plot point.

 

Or she could prove herself "worthy" by discovering another path to the spirit plane. 

And I don't see any hard fast reason she cannot see T'Challa in the spirit world. 

[zslane]

Writers usually get themselves out of such binds pretty regularly in the comics. Bad writers do a bad job of it, but Marvel's writers have been better than most in the superhero cinema space. I have faith in Feige and Co. that they will figure out a way (acceptable to fans) to move forward with the Black Panther franchise, without Boseman and without the magical herb.

[Ranxerox]

50 minutes ago, Spence said:

 

Or she could prove herself "worthy" by discovering another path to the spirit plane. 

And I don't see any hard fast reason she cannot see T'Challa in the spirit world. 

 

You mean besides the actor who plays him not being around to play the role?

[Matt the Bruins]

8 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

There is another factor in the mix to consider. T'Challa was among the half of humanity dusted at the end of Infinity War. Wakanda had to move forward without him for five years. What state was it in when he returned? What would he have done if someone else was chosen king during his absence?

My assumption would be that either Ramonda or M'baku became the head of state in T'challa and Shuri's absence, and that either the latter or Okoye became the new Black Panther as the nation's guardian/protector.

[Spence]

4 minutes ago, Ranxerox said:

 

You mean besides the actor who plays him not being around to play the role?

 

Small thinking.

It is the spirit world and there are such things as spirit guides and such.  A spirit guide in the form of a great panther with just enough CGI to add a fleeting glimpse of the human face of T'challa, and you're good. 

After all, this is Shuri's new path, not the old one.

 

I have enough faith in Marvel Studios to believe they can do something in a tasteful manner. 

[Ranxerox]

8 minutes ago, Spence said:

 

Small thinking.

It is the spirit world and there are such things as spirit guides and such.  A spirit guide in the form of a great panther with just enough CGI to add a fleeting glimpse of the human face of T'challa, and you're good. 

After all, this is Shuri's new path, not the old one.

 

I have enough faith in Marvel Studios to believe they can do something in a tasteful manner. 

 

Both T'Challa and Killmonger got to sit down and talk to the ancestor that that they most wanted to talk to.  Shuri has to settle for following some panther around?  I'm glad that you have a lot of faith of Marvel studios, but personally I don't think that would work for me.

 

I guess they could kill off Queen Ramonda and then give Shuri the opportunity to talk to her, but I would really prefer that they didn't kill off a good character just to bring her back later for a brief conversation on the ancestral plane.  Really, the "heart shaped herb" doesn't seem worth all this bother.  First, they have to  finds some more of the stuff and then they have to work out the whole ancestral plane problem.  That seems like a lot of wasted screen time when Shuri can just declare that she doesn't need the damn thing to be the Black Panther and then prove it so.