Supergirl

[Lord Liaden]

I can't disagree with most of the criticisms of this series; but I've become quite the fan of Melissa Benoist. Even within the confines of this series she's shown herself to be a very good actor, with a wide range and lots of on-screen charisma. With the right roles she could build an impressive career.

[bigdamnhero]

Re the Kara-Alex fight: I assumed Supergirl was slowed down & weakened by all the kryptonite Alex was wearing. I mean in some version, just the proximity of that much K is enough to bring Superman to his knees (see Superman I), so the notion that Kara had a hard time fighting against it wasn't a stretch for me. I would've preferred if it'd gone a few more rounds, but I feel that way about most of their fight scenes.

 

The Fort Roz thing? Yeah, that was a major headdesk. Even if you think the military would be content to just hide all this high-tec stuff and leave it alone, they never bothered to check it to see if maybe the escaped prisoners were using it?

 

But like I said, the things I liked were enough to make me forgive the occasional sour note. Someone awhile back compared it to watching a really enthusiastic junior high drama club performance - it's not very polished, but everyone is just trying so damn hard you can't help but get swept up in their enthusiasm.

 

Totally random aside: some to sit in on a fun Arrowverse game last night (run in Savage Worlds - not my favorite system, but well-suited to the style of the CW shows). No Supergirl, but Green Arrow, Flash, Diggle, Speedy, Constantine and Captain Cold - I got to spend 4 hours doing Leonard Snart impressions! Good fun.

[Hugh Neilson]

I suspect they feel they can get away with it because they imagine the audience is as clueless and indifferent to plausibility, logic, and verisimillitude as a 9-year old kid who reads the comics these shows are based on.

Emphasis added.

 

How many complaints have I read about pre-MCU/CW superhero shows/movies in other media not having that comic book feel? But when the characters do behave like they are in a comic book, the writers are criticized because the SuperHeroes act like their comic book counterparts, and events play out like they do in the comics. Now, we want them to instead portray the "superheroes" like those players who don't get into the genre that we gripe about on the Champions boards.

 

"Why don't they have a series of contingency plans like paranoid RPG players would? Why do they take risks like that without considering the possible responses out twenty more moves on the chessboard? How can they just leave their responsibilities aside to save one innocent person - acceptable losses, people!"

[Ternaugh]

I guess my real question is, are there still 9-year old kids reading comics? I'm not really sure that most folks without a pull list are actively reading comics on a regular basis, and the sales figures seem to bear that out. It's certainly not the same market that had paid circulations for some titles around a half a million per issue back in the 60s and 70s. Heck, I stopped reading comic books regularly some time in the 80s, when variant covers and price increases made the hobby less accessible and less enjoyable*. I'd wager that most of the folks who are watching Supergirl have never read an issue of the comic, that most folks only know Iron Man as Robert Downey Jr.'s portrayal, and don't realize that Nick Fury was originally a member of the WW II Howling Commandos.

 

 

 

*I think that a lot of it was the rise of comic book stores, which needed a way to get people to travel to them, rather than buying the next issue from a spinner rack at the local convenience store.

[Joe Walsh]

I guess my real question is, are there still 9-year old kids reading comics? I'm not really sure that most folks without a pull list are actively reading comics on a regular basis, and the sales figures seem to bear that out. It's certainly not the same market that had paid circulations for some titles around a half a million per issue back in the 60s and 70s. Heck, I stopped reading comic books regularly some time in the 80s, when variant covers and price increases made the hobby less accessible and less enjoyable*. I'd wager that most of the folks who are watching Supergirl have never read an issue of the comic, that most folks only know Iron Man as Robert Downey Jr.'s portrayal, and don't realize that Nick Fury was originally a member of the WW II Howling Commandos.

 

And, most importantly, have never read an issue of "What the--?!"

[Ranxerox]

 

But...I find myself fast-forwarding through more and more of this show. It's just painful how badly written so much of it is. Kara can't catch three falling people? Iron Man caught eleven (yeah, they started higher up, but he doesn't have superspeed). Kara's sister Alex with a Kryptonite sword should be no challenge whatsoever. Do we remember when the Flash visited only a few episodes back, and they were pretty much on a par when it came to superspeed? Kara should be able to slap that sword out of her hand (using a telephone pole or a street sign if she doesn't want to get too close) before Alex can blink. Or throw something at it with super-accuracy. Or eye-laser it until it's too hot to hold. Or....any number of things. There are SO MANY things Kara should be able to handle without breaking a sweat, but can't because the writers are idiots. Or think we're idiots. Or both.

 

 

 

I find myself feeling kinda embarrassed to have explain this here of all places.  

 

Supergirl is clearly a 4 SPD brick.  This means that despite the whole super speed thing she has going on that she can only perform 4 actions in a turn.  The way she set about rescuing the falling people she had to spend one action phase to rescue each individual, and clearly CatCo Tower was not tall enough for her to get to her 3rd action phase before Kelly went splat.  I would like to think that Supergirl's GM intended for Supergirl to move some large soft object that was conveniently placed nearby (in Supergirl's case that could include a couple blocks away) to break their falls, and that Supergirl's player just didn't think to look for such an object.  However, it is also possible that the GM was being d*** and wanted to force Supergirl's player to make the dramatic choice.

 

As for the fight with Alex, once again you aren't looking a Supergirl's build.  Alex's DCV is at least as good as Supergirl's OCV, so with the -2 OCV penalty of the disarm maneuver, the move just isn't going to work most of the time.  Trying to perform a ranged disarm is going to be even harder since against a sword that is a -3 OCV penalty, and despite your talk of super-accuracy, Supergirl has done nothing to indicate she has any levels in ranged combat.

 

Also, using a sign post or telephone poll isn't the winning strategy you think it is because Alex would just use her sword to block the attack.  Blocked attacks do no damage or knockback and the blocker get automatic first action in the phase if the both act in the same action phase (and since Alex also has a 4 SPD they always act in the same phases).  So as you can see attacking with weapon of opportunity is a risky strategy.

 

I hope these explanations help.  

[dmjalund]

In my opinion, the only reason Kara wasn't able to prove her sister wrong about flight and space was she drained herself pretty bad when she had that heat ray vision battle, add that to the effort required to lift the ship into space. I'm surprised she had enough power to survive in space in any capacity.

[Hugh Neilson]

Have to admit I was flashing back to Supergirl draining herself in that previous huge use of Heat Vision, and the followup that noted it had happened to Clark before. Tricking Non into draining himself out would have been an interesting tactic.

[zslane]

Emphasis added.How many complaints have I read about pre-MCU/CW superhero shows/movies in other media not having that comic book feel? But when the characters do behave like they are in a comic book, the writers are criticized because the SuperHeroes act like their comic book counterparts, and events play out like they do in the comics. Now, we want them to instead portray the "superheroes" like those players who don't get into the genre that we gripe about on the Champions boards.

There are many elements and tropes that make superhero adventures look and feel like superhero adventures. Not all of them need be, or should be, employed when adapted for live-action tv shows or feature films where your goal is to appeal to more than just 9-year olds. Making a show that is suitable for, and entertaining to kids doen't mean it has to only be suitable for and entertaining to them. Writing for "all ages" seems to be a rare skill that only Pixar's writers seem to have mastered.

 

In fact, I would say that The Incredibles is a good example of a superhero movie that "feels like the comics" but isn't dumbed down to a child-like mentality level.

[zslane]

I can't disagree with most of the criticisms of this series; but I've become quite the fan of Melissa Benoist.

Same here.

[Clonus]

Emphasis added.

 

How many complaints have I read about pre-MCU/CW superhero shows/movies in other media not having that comic book feel? But when the characters do behave like they are in a comic book, the writers are criticized because the SuperHeroes act like their comic book counterparts, and events play out like they do in the comics. Now, we want them to instead portray the "superheroes" like those players who don't get into the genre that we gripe about on the Champions boards.

 

"Why don't they have a series of contingency plans like paranoid RPG players would? Why do they take risks like that without considering the possible responses out twenty more moves on the chessboard? How can they just leave their responsibilities aside to save one innocent person - acceptable losses, people!"

 

Actually in the comic books superheroes don't give up their powers to serial killers to save one life.  They never did.  They might pretended to be complying but there would always be a last minute trick that would give them victory, however implausibly.  They also take their secret identities a bit more seriously than casually exposing them to dozens of strangers.  And if you give shadowy alien-hunting organizations a gigantic invisible alien complex equipped with cells to hold super-powered prisoners...they don't leave it vacant.  They move in and use it as their own base of operations/prison.    

[bigdamnhero]

They also take their secret identities a bit more seriously than casually exposing them to dozens of strangers.   

Heh, yeah all the Arrowverse shows really don't get the whole secret identity concept, do they? In the Savage Worlds Arrowverse game I mentioned, we had several moments where characters called each other by their SID names in costume or vice-versa. Sometimes it was on purpose, sometimes not. The best one was after the Bad Guys had tried to kidnap Thea Queen (in SID), Green Arrow busted in (in HID) and demanded to know why they were after "my sister." We all laughed and agreed that was in fact totally in character for the Arrowverse.

 

And if you give shadowy alien-hunting organizations a gigantic invisible alien complex equipped with cells to hold super-powered prisoners...they don't leave it vacant.  They move in and use it as their own base of operations/prison.    

Or at the very least, they keep it under heavy guard while the best scientists they can get clearences for crawl all over it and study every single inch to learn everything they can about it. [shakes head] I'm willing to cut this show a lot of slack, but that one was beyond dumb.

[Clonus]

Heh, yeah all the Arrowverse shows really don't get the whole secret identity concept, do they? In the Savage Worlds Arrowverse game I mentioned, we had several moments where characters called each other by their SID names in costume or vice-versa. Sometimes it was on purpose, sometimes not. The best one was after the Bad Guys had tried to kidnap Thea Queen (in SID), Green Arrow busted in (in HID) and demanded to know why they were after "my sister." We all laughed and agreed that was in fact totally in character for the Arrowverse.

 

Or at the very least, they keep it under heavy guard while the best scientists they can get clearences for crawl all over it and study every single inch to learn everything they can about it. [shakes head] I'm willing to cut this show a lot of slack, but that one was beyond dumb.

 

To be fair they did do that.  It's where they got their DEO tech and complete Fort Rozz prisoner files.  In a realistic setting there's no way they'd be done in only ten years but it isn't a realistic setting.  But still...gigantic invisible complex.  What covert agency wouldn't move in, no matter what the realism of the genre is?  

[Ternaugh]

Guys, they couldn't move in. It's extremely obvious that the station landed at an angle, and everyone knows that only villain lairs are allowed to be slanted like that.

[BoloOfEarth]

It would have been dead easy to explain them not using it and not still poring over it.  Simply mention that the crash caused a reactor leak.  Non saying something about Kryptonians being able to survive radiation that kept fragile humans at bay.

[Bazza]

There is a Legion ring in the Fortress of Solitude.

[Hugh Neilson]

It would have been dead easy to explain them not using it and not still poring over it.  Simply mention that the crash caused a reactor leak.  Non saying something about Kryptonians being able to survive radiation that kept fragile humans at bay.

And then we would have the critics noting what an OBVIOUS choice for a base that would make it, so why was it not under closer surveillance.

[Starlord]

May go to CW with lower budget

[Joe Walsh]

Might as well kill it.

[Bazza]

Kryptonite

[DasBroot]

I think it could do OK on the CW if it could maintain Flash-like numbers.  There's no shortage of special effects shots in the Flash, after all, so 'lift all the heavy things' and 'eye-meh-ha-meh-haaaaa!' should be possible.

[bigdamnhero]

Yeah, the effects have been marginal enough on a CBS budget - doing it on a CW budget would be tough. But at least we'd get more Flash crossovers.

[Bazza]

And maybe an Arrow crossover as well.

[Pattern Ghost]

Given that both shows have ignored the crossover episode, they could just move Supergirl right into the Arrowverse if they put her on the CW.

[Starlord]

Well, that would put Superman in their universe as well