Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

4 hours ago, Old Man said:

More than two parties is incredibly unlikely with a “first past the post” electoral system.

 

Well, Canada has a multi-party parliamentary system, and we have first past the post. The candidate with the most votes in a "riding" (electoral district) wins that seat in the House of Commons, however many parties run candidates in that riding; and the party with the most seats typically forms government. The party with the second most numerous seats has the status of Official Opposition. Mind you, practically speaking Canada has been governed by two political parties, the Liberals or the Conservatives, for most of its history. However, other parties do win seats and express a wider range of views, notably in recent decades the leftist New Democrats, nationalist Bloc Quebecois, and Western-based Reform Party, and recently the Greens; and if no party wins a majority of seats those smaller parties often wield the balance of power in getting legislature passed.

 

4 hours ago, Old Man said:

I’m curious as to what exactly you think Hillary would have done badly had she won. 

 

I admit to being curious about that as well.

[Doc Democracy]

I too, would be interested in any equivalence between Trump and Clinton.  Trump sees no boundaries and seems to equate being president with owning a company.  There appears to be no point where he accepted the responsibilities of office.

Doc

 

[wcw43921]

I think that if Clinton had been elected we'd have had more of the same that we did with Obama--most every measure of law she would have tried to introduce would have been blocked in the House and Senate by the Republican majorities.  Furthermore, I doubt the Democrats would have regained control of the House in 2018, as Democratic voters would likely have not have been so motivated to turn out as they were by the need to diminish Trump's effects upon national policy.  It is also unlikely that with Clinton in office, the wave of progressive candidates we saw elected to Congress would have happened--something that many left-wing activists (i.e. Susan Sarandon) were hoping for when they refused to support Clinton.

 

As for objections to Clinton, I've seen posts in this thread that referred to hes as a warmonger--but I cannot imagine any war short of a full nuclear exchange that has had the punitive effect on this economy as Trump's trade war, which seems to have no effect at all on the Chinese.  And then there's Trump's war on undocumented immigrants--people who come here seeking refuge from the hideous conditions that forced them to leave their homeland now find themselves in equally hideous conditions, conducive to the spread of disease and vermin, deprived of life and liberty without due process.  Easy enough to win a war when your enemy has no means to fight back.

 

These are my thoughts on the subject--take them as you will.

[Pariah]

I don't know that he can win, but it gives me hope that somebody is willing to try.

 

Former Illinois Rep. Joe Walsh announces he will challenge Trump in Republican primary

 

(It's worth noting that Bill Weld, who I voted for as part of the Gary Johnson ticket in 2016, has also said that he'll run against Trump in the primary.  I would take either one of these guys over Trump.)

[Pattern Ghost]

16 minutes ago, Pariah said:

I would take either one of these guys over Trump.

 

On the way to work last night, there was a woman standing in the middle of my lane on a busy street waving a blue plastic cooler around. I'd take her over Trump.

[pinecone]

20 hours ago, Old Man said:

More than two parties is incredibly unlikely with a “first past the post” electoral system. 

 

I’m curious as to what exactly you think Hillary would have done badly had she won. 

She'd be just another tool of the vested interests. But she was un electable, it was like the Dems lobbed the office over to the Ropublicans, and they tripped over their own corrupt methods. That left it open to "anybody else!", and that is what we got. If the best the parties can offer is "same old stuff you hate" we are in for a bumpy ride....

[CrosshairCollie]

On 8/23/2019 at 12:08 PM, Lord Liaden said:

 

I anticipate a massive backlash across the world after the current wave of arrogant, selfish, deceitful faux-populist leaders are finally exposed for the frauds they are. My fear is that it will come too late to mitigate the damage they're doing.

My fear is that it already IS too late.

[CrosshairCollie]

I think Hillary would have been a decent President.  Not great, not awful.  Middle-of-the-road.

Though to be completely honest, I didn't vote so much for her as against Trump.

[Old Man]

27 minutes ago, CrosshairCollie said:

My fear is that it already IS too late.

 

I have the same fear, but we can’t act as though it is. Maybe I’ve seen too many Captain America movies, but we have to keep trying to fix it, even if the results are imperfect. 

[Old Man]

2 hours ago, pinecone said:

She'd be just another tool of the vested interests. But she was un electable, it was like the Dems lobbed the office over to the Ropublicans, and they tripped over their own corrupt methods.

 

I dunno, there’s something I’m not getting. I just don’t see what policies and actions a Hillary presidency would have enacted that would have been so disastrous. 

[Pariah]

40 minutes ago, Old Man said:

I dunno, there’s something I’m not getting. I just don’t see what policies and actions a Hillary presidency would have enacted that would have been so disastrous. 

 

She would have expanded Obama care, doubled down on climate change, and appointed liberal justices to the Supreme Court.

 

Disastrous, I tell you!

[pinecone]

52 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

I dunno, there’s something I’m not getting. I just don’t see what policies and actions a Hillary presidency would have enacted that would have been so disastrous. 

WE may be talking past one another, but she would not have served the interests on the people (IMO) my objection is that saying "Hillary was just fine as a candidate is wrong and counter productive. If the Dems put up another puppet there is the real danger of four more years of "not candidate x" to inflict on the electorate. If you can honestly tell me you think Hillary is a good choice, good on ya, run her again....

[Iuz the Evil]

Better than what we've got, no question. I'll go with essentially whomever is run this year in opposition to the current incumbent, barring some dramatic change in who that candidate is. But no chance at all that I would lower myself to voting for Donald Trump after his performance this past several years. 

 

It has been an unmitigated disaster. 

[Asperion]

1 minute ago, Iuz the Evil said:

Better than what we've got, no question. I'll go with essentially whomever is run this year in opposition to the current incumbent, barring some dramatic change in who that candidate is. But no chance at all that I would lower myself to voting for Donald Trump after his performance this past several years. 

 

It has been an unmitigated disaster. 

 

O get the feeling that many voters are going to vote this way in 2020.  That happened last election year (2018) here in Colorado and despite what the news media is saying,  I can't see any real difference between the different parties.  It will be like asking if one likes grass green  or lime green.   There really is no real difference between the primary parties.   However,  what most people forget is that there is over a dozen parties listed on the political rolls,  most of whom get no to little attention.   Most of the time the total attention that is devoted to all these others is less than a fraction of either one of the primary parties.  Even the media seems as though they do not exist and only focus on the primary two. 

[Lord Liaden]

7 hours ago, Pariah said:

I don't know that he can win, but it gives me hope that somebody is willing to try.

 

Former Illinois Rep. Joe Walsh announces he will challenge Trump in Republican primary

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMlbWZkhYU4

 

 

[death tribble]

He worries me. He really does. President Trump wanted to explore the possibility of using nuclear weapons against hurricanes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49471093

[Starlord]

That's because Hurricanes cause cancer. 

[IndianaJoe3]

12 hours ago, Asperion said:

 

O get the feeling that many voters are going to vote this way in 2020.  That happened last election year (2018) here in Colorado and despite what the news media is saying,  I can't see any real difference between the different parties.  It will be like asking if one likes grass green  or lime green.   There really is no real difference between the primary parties. 

 

It is very hard to take you seriously when you claim that there isn't any difference between Democrats and Republicans. 

[ScottishFox]

On 8/24/2019 at 5:43 PM, Ternaugh said:

 

Well, she's never been particularly good at taking orders from Putin.

 

Are you sure?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

[Ternaugh]

38 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

 

Are you sure?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

 

Are you?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_One_controversy

 

Quote

Since the 2015 publication of the book Clinton Cash by Breitbart News editor and Steve Bannon collaborator Peter Schweizer, as well as a 2015 New York Times article,^[1] allegations of a bribery scheme involving Hillary Clinton, the Clinton Foundation and the 2010 sale of Uranium One have persisted, primarily in conservative media. Despite four years of discussion and analysis of the matter—as well as an FBI investigation^[2]— no evidence of any quid pro quo or other wrong-doing has surfaced.

 

[ScottishFox]

I don't think anyone will live long enough to make anything stick on the Clintons. 

 

Epstein had a painting of Bill Clinton in the blue dress on the wall of his his evil island palace and people were so sure he'd "suicide" in prison they were joking about it days before it happened with a litany of unbelievable excuses (sleeping guards, suicide watch pulled, cameras malfunctioning, 40+ year no-suicide run ended, etc.).  I think we all knew it was coming.

 

I do think there is a long enough pattern of shady dealings to not want her to be President - ever.

 

I'll admit I'm still upset by how she and the DNC screwed over Bernie Sanders.  Bernie seems to be aging so fast I don't think he can make a legit run at it now. 

[Ternaugh]

20 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

I don't think anyone will live long enough to make anything stick on the Clintons. 

 

Epstein had a painting of Bill Clinton in the blue dress on the wall of his his evil island palace and people were so sure he'd "suicide" in prison they were joking about it days before it happened with a litany of unbelievable excuses (sleeping guards, suicide watch pulled, cameras malfunctioning, 40+ year no-suicide run ended, etc.).  I think we all knew it was coming.

 

I do think there is a long enough pattern of shady dealings to not want her to be President - ever.

 

I'll admit I'm still upset by how she and the DNC screwed over Bernie Sanders.  Bernie seems to be aging so fast I don't think he can make a legit run at it now. 

 

"Yer a Ninja, Hillary!"

[ScottishFox]

2 minutes ago, Ternaugh said:

"Yer a Ninja, Hillary!"

 

My Google-foo has failed me.

 

All I was able to find is this ridiculous video of Trump & Hillary fighting ninjas.

 

 

[Pariah]

Trump denies profiting from the presidency, promotes his Miami resort for next G-7 summit

 

“I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on here!”

“…Your winnings, sir.”

“Oh, thank you very much!”

[Simon]

I'm continually amazed that folks will acknowledge Russian interference in the 2016 election as if it's the dumbest thing in the world to question it...and then continue to parrot the misinformation that they were fed by said interference. The Russians didn't interfere by altering votes/hacking voting machines -- they interfered through social engineering...guiding and controlling public opinions and discourse.

The Russians took a page directly from our playbook -- they did the modern/online equivalent of what we did with Yeltsin.

 

For those continuing to parrot the "Hillary is the devil" lines...or "Hillary stole the nomination from Sanders"...please read the rules of this thread and do some research.  Hillary did not steal the Democratic nomination -- she won both the popular vote and the delegate vote, which is kind of the way it's supposed to work (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries). She was an extremely competent and experienced politician who became the target of one of the largest smear campaigns in modern history (the most direct/tangible result of the Russian interference in the election process).