Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Lord Liaden]

2 hours ago, Hermit said:

The more the tariffs' thing comes into play, the more I'm embarrassed. Not that I think all tariff's are bad, but these tarrifs are born of rationale regarding war and national defense? SERIOUSLY, what the....

 

We're doing this to Canada because of National Security?

[SNIP]

 

First off, Hermit, thank you for leaping to our defense.

 

National Security is pure administrative pretext. Trump wants tariffs for whatever reason has lodged in his, for want of a better term, "brain." There's a lot of opposition to them in the legislature, so classifying this as a national security measure allows him to apply them as an executive action.

[Lord Liaden]

26 minutes ago, Funk Thompson said:

I have to say, after a time away, and I could be wrong...  but it is so very refreshing to find that the political thread here on HEROGames.com seems...  almost completely devoid of anyone defending the current moving train wreck we find ourselves "led" by.

 

We have our share of economic and social conservatives on these forums, which is fair. But we're thankfully short on people who are willfully ignorant enough to overlook some of the more egregious developments.

 

BTW nice to see you back, Funkster.

[Hermit]

2 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

First off, Hermit, thank you for leaping to our defense.

 

National Security is pure administrative pretext. Trump wants tariffs for whatever reason has lodged in his, for want of a better term, "brain." There's a lot of opposition to them in the legislature, so classifying this as a national security measure allows him to apply them as an executive action.

 

I'd say you're welcome, but frankly I think anyone who values sanity should stick up for Canada on this one.

 

And yes, you're right. Trump wants what Trump wants and screw the wrong done. His mix of ignorance, malice, and utter short sightedness offends me on levels I didn't know I had.

[Funk Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

We have our share of economic and social conservatives on these forums, which is fair. But we're thankfully short on people who are willfully ignorant enough to overlook some of the more egregious developments.

 

Oh, sure, it isn't like all conservatives support him and all liberals don't; though the number of liberals supporting this is likely single-digit.

 

I'm on many forums with tons of conservatives or libertarians or right-leaning independents who hate what they see happening just as much as I do.

 

But on most every other forum I frequent, there are at least a handful defending and praising his every move.  

[Pattern Ghost]

42 minutes ago, Dr.Device said:

dapper Nazis

 

I don't want to detract from your points, which I hold in high regard.

 

But . . .

 

I just wanted to point out that this would be an excellent name for a punk band.

 

[Hermit]

38 minutes ago, Dr.Device said:

 

Sorry that I implied that you were a free speech absolutist. I was just trying to make the point that there are limits, and we, as a society get to choose where those limits are.

 

I used to believe in the whole "sunlight is the best disinfectant" (not quoting anyone here, that I know of) idea. But seeing the surge is white nationalism and other forms of open bigotry has gone a long way to convincing me it's just not true. People see these ideas out there, hear the president of the *%^&$ United States talking about there being "good people on both sides" when the Nazis marched in Charlottesville, see the New York Times running story after story about dapper Nazis, and it starts to permeate the air. Soak in. Fester.

 

Something has to give, or we really could go the way of Nazi Germany.

 

I don't really fear for myself.  Since I've come out, being trans really isn't a struggle for me. It's awesome. I get to be myself after fifty-two years of hiding. There is no force on this planet that will send me back into hiding, and if I end up suffering because of that, nothing can take away the fact that I'll do it as myself. But  I fear for all my LGBTQ siblings. And I'm sad for the ones who are afraid to be themselves because of the environment of hate that is blooming, fanned by the current administration.  I fear for every visible minority, because if the far right continues to gain power in this country, none of them are safe.

 

So, it's not that I'm going to try to get Nazis outlawed, but I just don't see them as worth spending the money to defend. I am a donor to the ACLU. I think they do a lot of great work. But the idea of my money going to defend people who not only would gladly see me dead, but are actually striving to make that happen, makes me almost physically ill. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you. I may not agree with you on every point, but even the ones I might disagree with are well made.

 

It's my hope that that the extremists on the far right have over stretched and will face some back lashes with this years elections. A lot of new blood is flooding the democratic side, and a lot of old guard republicans are retiring- both as a reaction to Trumpism.

 

*Knock on wood*

 

[Lord Liaden]

Yeah, there's a real cult of personality building around the Donald. I know otherwise reasonable people who still like him and believe in his focus overall, regardless of how they feel about individual actions.

 

As far as tariffs go, while it may not get as much news play in the United States as it does here in Canada, our countries plus Mexico are still in the midst of renegotiating the North American Free Trade Agreement. It's entirely within Trump's past bullying tactics for him to try to use these tariffs as a bargaining chip to force more trade concessions from Canada.

 

BTW our government immediately slapped retaliatory tariffs on a range of American imports.

[Ragitsu]

Few things are more depressing than a young racist in the 21st century. It is unfortunate, then, that there is a surplus of them (enough to keep the alt-right alive and Trump in power).

[TrickstaPriest]

3 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

I'm reminded of a time shortly after Rick Snyder was elected governor of Michigan.  I belong to a service organization which in our town is mainly composed of male retirees.  (At age 53, I'm considered one of the 'young ones.')  And most of them are very staunch Republicans, who of course voted for Snyder and were gleeful when he won the election (especially since so many were grousing about Obama being president).

 

Prior to 2011 (when Snyder was elected) pension income in Michigan was tax-exempt up to about $90,000.  However, one of the things Snyder pushed through in his first year of office was changes to the budget and state tax laws that began taxing pensions.  (Not surprisingly, this was coupled with major tax cuts to businesses.)

 

When the taxation of pensions was announced, you never heard such grousing as what came out of those guys who had just been celebrating Snyder's election.  I was immediately thinking, "Really?  You didn't see this coming a mile away?  Wow, you must not have been paying attention!"

 

As to Trump and mass arrests / deportations -- I'm shocked that anybody didn't think that would happen if he got elected.  It's not like this came out of left field.  A huge chunk of Dolt 45's election rhetoric was about those eeeeeevil immigrants.  Murderers and rapists and pickpockets, each and every one.  Build The Wall!  (sigh)  Wasn't anybody paying attention?

 

I find that interesting.  Before the 2016 elections, all the way back when Trump was at the head of the push for the Republican party, I felt like I was going to see a combination of Snyder and Nixon if he ever got into office; not that I ever believed it was possible.  Party loyalty is apparently incredibly powerful...  Massive inexperience and (possibly unwitting) incompetence, combined with ruthless self interest.  I never even considered the (primary) Nixon scandals, just the ruthless corruption and hunger for power.

[dmjalund]

3 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

well, apart from one intolerable month spent in Florida doing asphalt sealcoating in July of 1983

think how bad it was for the seals

[TrickstaPriest]

7 hours ago, csyphrett said:

The thing about the town being upset because their 75 guys got arrested is the same as the woman's husband getting deported after being arrested at his restaurant.

 

I voted for Trump. I didn't think this would happen.

 

As someone once said

Leopard, meet face. Face, meet leopard.

CES    

 

You have my sympathies, even so.  Politics has become far too pandering of the outright crazies.

[Lucius]

6 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

 

I don't want to detract from your points, which I hold in high regard.

 

But . . .

 

I just wanted to point out that this would be an excellent name for a punk band.

 

 

Better names would be

 

Sonic Reptilian Unicorn

 

or

 

Toxic Shamans

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And the Palindromedaries

[Ragitsu]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/06/trump-sidelines-bolton-to-keep-peace-pompeo-with-north-korea-summit.html

[Ragitsu]

https://www.vox.com/2018/6/7/17439268/school-shooting-lockdown-nursery-rhyme

[Starlord]

Somehow this administration just got even weirder

[csyphrett]

26 minutes ago, Starlord said:

Somehow this administration just got even weirder

And the guys responsible for putting back together those papers that shouldn't have been destroyed were fired without notice

CES

[Lord Liaden]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/americans-are-saying-supernumberthankscanada-in-wake-of-donald-trump’s-attack-on-justin-trudeau/ar-AAyviEv?li=AAggNb9

 

Just when I was about to exit everything American news-related over being sick to my stomach listening to Trump -- especially his recent Canada-bashing -- comes a splendid reminder that the bulk of American people are good and fair neighbors. Thanks, Yanks -- I needed that.

[Lord Liaden]

And a comment reported by the Canadian Press, attributed to an anonymous diplomat at the recent G7 summit, will probably become my mantra the next time this President spews venom our way: "Aren't we all getting used to it? The dog barks, the caravan moves on."

[Hermit]

Please pass on my like to that anonymous diplomat if you should ever find out who she or he is

[Ragitsu]

https://qz.com/1302363/net-neutrality-officially-ends-today/

 

?

[st barbara]

Why does Trump think that it is okay for him to run around imposing tariffs on other countries but , when they retaliate in kind, it is some sort of crime ? Surely he, or someone in his administration, must have expected pushback from those countries that he imposed tariffs upon ? Did they tell him what was likely to happen ? Did he just ignore advice  ? or was no-one game enough to tell him ?

[st barbara]

8 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

And a comment reported by the Canadian Press, attributed to an anonymous diplomat at the recent G7 summit, will probably become my mantra the next time this President spews venom our way: "Aren't we all getting used to it? The dog barks, the caravan moves on."

The dog barks and his Pavlovian canine friends at Fox news salivate !

[Ternaugh]

53 minutes ago, st barbara said:

Why does Trump think that it is okay for him to run around imposing tariffs on other countries but , when they retaliate in kind, it is some sort of crime ? Surely he, or someone in his administration, must have expected pushback from those countries that he imposed tariffs upon ? Did they tell him what was likely to happen ? Did he just ignore advice  ? or was no-one game enough to tell him ?

 

“That's the way it was. Privilege, which just means 'private law.' Two types of people laugh at the law; those that break it and those that make it.”

― Terry Pratchett, Night Watch

[Lord Liaden]

Trump's indignation at other countries' trade practices is an act, playing to his base. From the start he's told them that their problems are the fault of other people, that they've been mistreated by everyone who isn't white working-class America (except of course for him and his rich friends). The Donald isn't concerned with fairness, but with getting everything he can that he thinks will make him look good. Just like this meeting with Kim Jong-un -- he made grand promises for what he expected to achieve, but in the end settled for vague non-binding "commitments" to denuclearization. Trump gets the photo-op he craves, something he can sell back home as deal-making. But Kim gets much more, the international recognition and legitimization of his regime that his family has always wanted.

 

It also occurred to me that Donald Trump tearing up the deals, arrangements, and systems established by his predecessors, is so that he can try to establish new ones he can credit to himself. He wants to remake the face of America in his image, to stamp a giant "TRUMP" across it like one of his buildings. I've come to believe he doesn't understand or really care if anyone but himself benefits from that. I also suspect it's why he seems such a fan of Vladimir Putin, because Putin has more or less accomplished that with Russia. Aside from obliviousness to the ethical issues relating to his ruthlessness, Trump doesn't seem to appreciate that Putin accomplished it through patience, discipline, and calculation -- all qualities the Donald lacks.

[Starlord]

The tariffs don't bother me, they're used to protect your own businesses.  The whopping 240+% Canada places on butter, cheese, and milk imports are there to protect its dairy industry, for example.  The deliberate antagonization and negative language towards long-time allies while, at the same time, seeming admiration of dictators is the most disturbing.