Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[Sociotard]

Here is the Executive Order regarding Free Speech on Twitter that just got signed.

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-preventing-online-censorship/

 

TLDR: Twitter flagged Trump, and they didn't flag Schiff for repeating the Russian Collusion thing. That means they're playing favorites. There are other (not cited or specified) examples of liberal bias on social media platforms.

Everybody needs to think on the Communications Decency Act (section 230(c)). It lets platforms delete some stuff (hate speech) without necessarily taking on the obligations of publishers. Basically, make sure that part gets a narrow interpretation.

All the agencies need to make a report on what advertising they do on platforms that restrict free speech. (remember how much advertising the armed forces do on any platform frequented by young adults)

In May they made a tool for citizens to report getting their free speech blocked on assorted platforms, and the order says the DOJ should investigate these.

[TrickstaPriest]

2 hours ago, Sociotard said:

TLDR: Twitter flagged Trump, and they didn't flag Schiff for repeating the Russian Collusion thing. That means they're playing favorites. There are other (not cited or specified) examples of liberal bias on social media platforms.

 

I mean, I'm sure there are.

 

But I also can't think of any instances of major/leadership 'liberal sources' retweeting something like this?

https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/local/new-mexico/2020/05/20/cowboys-for-trump-new-mexico-county-commissioner-couy-griffin-only-good-democrat-dead-democrat/5233131002/

 

(and if this is fake news, I'll be glad to hear it from someone here)

[Old Man]

[megaplayboy]

On 5/27/2020 at 7:23 PM, Lawnmower Boy said:

The black people did the bad thing once, so they deserve it. 

Someone said that "slavery is the original sin, which white people have never forgiven black people for."

[DShomshak]

ATC yesterday discussed the alleged "liberal bias" of social media platforms. The expert they consulted said that, no, conservatives aren't the only people who get fact-checked or blocked by Twitter. She mentioned Black Lives Matter and Muslim extremists as having experienced this as well, though without citing specific posts or people.

 

It would perhaps be interesting to study the relative frequencies of flagging or banning, relative to population of people holding various political positions, to see if there is indeed any sort of bias, or if it's just that some groups are more prone to wackadoodle claims or hate speech. But as I mentioned earlier, the Anti-Defamation League's historical survey of American political violence showed the great majority of it is associated with conservative causes.

 

Dean Shomshak

[DShomshak]

ATC yesterday discussed the alleged "liberal bias" of social media platforms. The expert they consulted said that, no, conservatives aren't the only people who get fact-checked or blocked by Twitter. She mentioned Black Lives Matter and Muslim extremists as having experienced this as well, though without citing specific posts or people.

 

It would perhaps be interesting to study the relative frequencies of flagging or banning, relative to population of people holding various political positions, to see if there is indeed any sort of bias, or if it's just that some groups are more prone to wackadoodle claims or hate speech. But as I mentioned earlier, the Anti-Defamation League's historical survey of American political violence showed the great majority of it is associated with conservative causes.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Lord Liaden]

As Stephen Colbert has remarked on several occasions: “It is a well known fact that reality has a liberal bias.”

[Pariah]

"The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters."

[Ternaugh]

1 hour ago, Pariah said:

"The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters."

 

Nature has some new plague
To run in our streets
History some new wrinkle
We are doomed to repeat

 

Fugitives at the bedroom door
Lovers pause to find an open store
Rain is burning on the forest floor
And the red tide kisses the shore

 

This is not a false alarm
This is not a test

 

Stay out of the sun
It only burns my skin
Sky full of poison
And the atmosphere's too thin

 

Bless the sun, the rain no more
River running like an open sore
Black wind falling through the ocean floor
And the red tide washes ashore

 

This is not a false alarm
This is not a test
 

Nowhere we can fly away
Nowhere we can rest
The party is disrupted by
An uninvited guest

 

Deadline approaches
For the weary land
It used to be something
But we let it run down in our hands

 

Too late for debate, too bad to ignore
Quiet rebellion leads to open war
Bring a sea-change to the factory floor
As the red tide covers the shore

 

Now is the time to turn the tide
Now is the time to fight
Let us not go gently
To the endless winter night

 

Now is the time to make the time
While hope is still in sight
Let us not go gently
To the endless winter night

 

Let us not go gently
To the endless winter night

 

 

[assault]

23 hours ago, Pariah said:

"The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters."

 

Antonio Gramsci quote, but a dubious translation.

I liked it anyway.

[Cygnia]

Gregg Popovich: ‘The System Has to Change’

Quote

“It’s unbelievable. If Trump had a brain, even if it was 99 percent cynical, he would come out and say something to unify people. But he doesn’t care about bringing people together. Even now. That’s how deranged he is. It’s all about him. It’s all about what benefits him personally. It’s never about the greater good. And that’s all he’s ever been.”

Popovich then took a moment to imagine a different kind of leadership.

 

“It’s so clear what needs to be done. We need a president to come out and say simply that ‘black lives matter.’ Just say those three words. But he won’t and he can’t. He can’t because it’s more important to him to mollify the small group of followers who validate his insanity. But it’s more than just Trump. The system has to change. I’ll do whatever I can do to help, because that’s what leaders do. But he can’t do anything to put us on a positive path, because he’s not a leader.

 

[Hermit]

Well...

Trump is threatening to order the military to attack protesters. 

[assault]

6 minutes ago, Hermit said:

Well...

Trump is threatening to order the military to attack protesters. 

 

 

So did Bashar al-Assad, and that worked really well.

[Hermit]

3 minutes ago, assault said:

 

 

So did Bashar al-Assad, and that worked really well.

 

Yeah, we're going to have to appeal to the United States of America for help with our tyrant and...

 

dammit

 

 

[Sociotard]

20 minutes ago, Hermit said:

Well...

Trump is threatening to order the military to attack protesters. 

 

I find the responses in this thread perturbing.

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

Well, it's called, "Ask a Conservative." I guess that says what the majority perspective of its readership is inclined to be.

 

What truly disappoints me is that their response is only to the looting and vandalism by a minority of protestors, and tarring them all with that brush; instead of remembering that this started because a white police officer murdered an innocent black man in cold blood, which the whole country saw, and looks to be getting away with little more than a slap on the wrist.

[Old Man]

47 minutes ago, Sociotard said:

 

I find the responses in this thread perturbing.

 

 

And yet unsurprising.  I had another darkly amusing conversation with my Fox News-addicted FIL this weekend, in which he held forth that all the violence is committed by black people, and that there must be some kind of shadowy central authority organizing and directing the rioters, and why don't we just have the military machine gun them all in the streets?  In the same tone of voice that he uses to suggest having oxtail soup for dinner.

[Hermit]

17 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Well, it's called, "Ask a Conservative." I guess that says what the majority perspective of its readership is inclined to be.

 

What truly disappoints me is that their response is only to the looting and vandalism by a minority of protestors, and tarring them all with that brush; instead of remembering that this started because a white police officer murdered an innocent black man in cold blood, which the whole country saw, and looks to be getting away with little more than a slap on the wrist.

 

Some people are COUNTING on finding excuses to not remember, to sideline the catalyst and the injustice it revealed. If they can turn the focus on jackasses looting a store while a peaceful protest is going a block away, or some vandals hurling rocks at windows under the cover of it... they can avoid that cutting introspection that has so many of us forced to deal with the fact our apathy and inaction allows this to continue.

 

It is the shallow man's absolution.

 

 

[Old Man]

6 minutes ago, Hermit said:

 

Some people are COUNTING on finding excuses to not remember, to sideline the catalyst and the injustice it revealed. If they can turn the focus on jackasses looting a store while a peaceful protest is going a block away, or some vandals hurling rocks at windows under the cover of it... they can avoid that cutting introspection that has so many of us forced to deal with the fact our apathy and inaction allows this to continue.

 

 

Exactly, which is why this time they started actually sending jackasses to loot stores and vandalize windows.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

I wrote this on my FB page after somebody asked me my thoughts on the riots. I didn't even need to mention Trump....

 

SPOILER ALERT: This is a potentially socio-political post regarding the recent riots. If this offends you....well...you've been warned. This is also a very long post.

I am a student of history. As such, it is inevitable that I place events like this in such a context and compare them to past events. By doing so we put them in a perspective that makes it easier to explain what is going on.

1) The riots aren't about another police murder. That was just the spark that set off the massive powder keg. That "keg" is the society that we've built. A society of exploitation, income disparity, and social injustice that has been around practically since the country's inception. How did we get there? Well....

2) America doesn't fix problems; it hides them. America has at virtually all times in its history either denied problems or ignored them. It's practically a second job. We never even resolved the lingering issues from the Civil War for pity's sake. We won the military conflict, but we never solved the social issues that caused the war to begin with. We reconstructed the South physically when what we needed to do was reconstruct it socially. By not doing so we have perpetuated the inherent bigotry which still reigns over the nation. America is like a person with a deep knife wound which we've covered with a band aid. America goes....see...problem solved. The problem is the wound is still there...festering. If the wound starts to seep....we slap another band aid on it. We never treat the infection. Well...why haven't we fixed this yet? Well....

3) America has evolved into a country not willing to make sacrifices. At this point, fixing our many problems (bigotry,vast income disparity, corrupt government, unviable political structures) would require a degree of sacrifice that most Americans aren't willing to make. Minorites don't want to...they're already suffering. White Americans don't want to...they're safely insulated against the worst abuses. The 1% certainly don't as they benefit from the current status quo.

4) " Well...violence isn't the right response." Indeed? Let's start with....the American Revolution. " Well....that's different. " Is it though? Apply some of the arguments against the riots into that context. " Well, those colonists are just making things worse...vandalizing property and such. I mean...if they'd just be patient and work with the system...things would.....eventually....get better. Really...they're just a bunch of criminals. They should be shot. "

5) The riots are happening because peaceful protests aren't working. The "Establishment" loves peaceful protests. They get to sit back and carry on business as usual. White Americans love them because there's no risk (also no reward...but hey...they don't need anything). " But...they really are just hurting their own communities...." Their "communities" are a social construct created by the society that continually oppresses them. They're not as attached to them as you might think.

6) The riots aren't about the act itself. Riots are a "lashing out". They're a way to make people see the pain they're feeling. They're born out of emotion and frustration. " Well...I still don't condone breaking the law. "

7) When that society treats you like animals on a continual basis, you feel less inclined to obey those laws. Again...the Revolution example...guess those upstart colonists should have just buckled down and worked with the system, eh? " So...you bring up the Revolution a lot. Do we need another one? " In a word...yes.

 American society needs to change or it will no longer be viable as a country. The changes needed are massive and to be honest...I have my doubts that they can be achieved without some sort of conflict. The political/social structures holding us back are just too entrenched to be removed by passive means. " Well....I don't like the sound of that. Any other way? "

9) Sure, but it may not be much better. Most significant change in America comes from catastrophe. That's why things never change after a mass shooting or a random minority murder. Too small scale...they don't affect enough people. Things that did create massive social change affected the entire country at once (The Great Depression). The riots right now are in medium scale. They could be a catalyst for change if they got worse, but I doubt that will happen. Instead, things will settle down until the next crisis. It's what we do. " You talk an awful lot about change. What changes do you mean? "

10) For starters...

a) Bridging the social/economic gap in the country.
b) The end of the two party political system.
c) Money out of politics. Period.
d) Focus on quality education for all.
e) The end of absurd spending by the military/industrial complex.
f) Owning up to our nation's failures unanimously and publicly and making sincere and legitimate attempts to fix them.

The storming of the Bastille and the riots of St. Petersburg both led to significant social change. Our situation definitely parallels that of France and Russia before their respective revolutions in many ways. We need to decide how we want this to go down. We have a lot of history to draw from. Let's try to learn from it. Nuff said.

[Cygnia]

[pawsplay]

18 hours ago, Dr. MID-Nite said:

2) America doesn't fix problems; it hides them. America has at virtually all times in its history either denied problems or ignored them. It's practically a second job. We never even resolved the lingering issues from the Civil War for pity's sake. We won the military conflict, but we never solved the social issues that caused the war to begin with.

 

I don't agree "we" won the military conflict. The Civil War was fought between two slave-owning powers. At the conclusion of the war, the two powers were stitched back together and slavery was nominally ended. The Confederacy for its part wanted nothing less than the perpetual, state-enshrined institution of racialized slavery. The Union, for its part, wanted to be maintain military and economic strength, at virtually any price. At the beginning of the war, the Union notoriously tolerated a "contraband" policy, and at the end of the war, slavery did not exist in the South but shambled on for some time in the North. Some of the last slaves of that era were in Washington, DC.

That is the legacy of the Civil War: absolutely omnipresent racism, oppression of blacks and other minorities, and the expansion of the imperial state. The Civil War dealt a grievous war but did not end it. Slavery exists now. Systemic oppression of African-Americans continues.

[Ternaugh]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/memo-front-lines-different-america-n1222066

 

Quote

Official violence creeps up before it explodes.

 

From my vantage point at the barricade between protesters and Lafayette Square, just north of the White House and a hair west of 16th Street, I could see and feel it moving forward with military precision. Even if I didn't realize at the time that the objective would later turn out to be a presidential photo-op.

 

Members of the Washington, D.C., National Guard marched up to the front line, joining the ranks of U.S. Park Police and law enforcement officers from various federal agencies to form a wall.

 

They were all wearing riot gear. But there was no riot.

 

[megaplayboy]

If something "historically awful" happens this week, internet forums will be rife with "terms of service violations" directed towards one particular current resident of DC.  But it probably won't last longer than one week.  

[wcw43921]

I'll say it again--if you voted for Trump, this is what you voted for.