Coronavirus

[Lord Liaden]

8 hours ago, Bazza said:

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html?fbclid=IwAR2oBVeUu17uWYpEnfnZrXD5WKRdmm7FjVyCfp02inrRheUtiy7PKPDk63k

 

cc @L. Marcus

 

“Unfortunately the mortality rate is high due to the introduction (of the virus) in elderly care homes and we are investigating the cause of that,” he said. ["He" being Dr. Anders Tegnell, chief epidemiologist at Sweden’s Public Health Agency.]

 

"The number of cases in Sweden is almost double that in neighboring Denmark (it has 8,108 cases and has reported 370 deaths) and Finland (with just over 4,000 cases and 141 deaths) that imposed strict lockdown measures. Since their populations are each about 5 million — half of Sweden’s — the rates are about the same, although the comparison could be skewed by testing numbers in each country. Still, Sweden’s 1,937 death toll is far higher than its neighbors."

 

"Herd immunity" has traditionally been achieved through widespread use of vaccines. Sweden's attempt at a shortcut by avoiding strict lockdown might work out long term, but from the start the policy's critics warned it would put the most vulnerable Swedes at risk. Note the article also specifies that half of Sweden's deaths from the virus are elderly in care homes.

[Old Man]

[Ragitsu]

5 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

Treatment #2 -> Internal ultraviolet radiation.

 

[ScottishFox]

43 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

"The number of cases in Sweden is almost double that in neighboring Denmark (it has 8,108 cases and has reported 370 deaths) and Finland (with just over 4,000 cases and 141 deaths) that imposed strict lockdown measures. Since their populations are each about 5 million — half of Sweden’s — the rates are about the same, although the comparison could be skewed by testing numbers in each country. Still, Sweden’s 1,937 death toll is far higher than its neighbors."

 

We're seeing somewhat of a similar effect in New York City despite the lockdown.  Results of a test were quoted by Cuomo on Thursday involving 3000 public tests.  Among New York City residents 21% already had antibodies and in the population outside the city it was 13%.

 

New York Cities mortality rate is substantially higher than most other areas as well.  Not sure how much of that is testing methodology and how much could be attributed to higher viral loads, but so far the mortality rate in New York is roughly 4x higher than where I live in DFW.

 

If this plague comes around for a second pass or worse - is here to stay - Sweden's approach to biting the bullet early may indeed turn out to be the best choice in the long run.

[Badger]

Well, the quarantine experiment is a one time thing.  Humanity or at least civilization cant survive doing it everytime this or something like it comes around.    

[Old Man]

10 hours ago, Bazza said:

Sweden resisted a lockdown, and its capital Stockholm is expected to reach ‘herd immunity’ in weeks

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-stockholm-could-see-herd-immunity-in-weeks.html?fbclid=IwAR2oBVeUu17uWYpEnfnZrXD5WKRdmm7FjVyCfp02inrRheUtiy7PKPDk63k

 

cc @L. Marcus

 

 

Things change quickly in 48 hours.

 

Sweden forced to withdraw erroneous Stockholm infection rate report

 

Sweden coronavirus case increases post record spike for second straight day

 

 

[Old Man]

 

I mean, if you use these you won't have to worry about coronavirus anymore...

[Ragitsu]

7 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

 

Things change quickly in 48 hours.

 

Sweden forced to withdraw erroneous Stockholm infection rate report

 

Sweden coronavirus case increases post record spike for second straight day

 

 

 

Is patience so difficult a pill to swallow?

[Old Man]

 

"You must learn patience, my student."

 

"Yeah, yeah.  Patience.  How long will that take?"

[Old Man]

Looks like we only have to wait until next Wednesday to reach 1M cases and 60K deaths in the US. 

[unclevlad]

18 minutes ago, Ragitsu said:

 

Is patience so difficult a pill to swallow?

 

Yes.

 

[assault]

At the moment Australia is looking pretty good.

 

With two and a half times the population of Sweden, we have had 6,675 confirmed cases (an obvious undercount), but only 78 deaths.

 

Unfortunately our politicians are starting to look at a premature reopening, so a second spike is likely, and could be much worse.

[assault]

1 hour ago, Ragitsu said:

 

Treatment #2 -> Internal ultraviolet radiation.

 

 

Doesn't the patient usually explode after this treatment?

[Old Man]

4 minutes ago, assault said:

 

Doesn't the patient usually explode after this treatment?

 

Cured!

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Ragitsu said:

 

Is patience so difficult a pill to swallow?

 

For the over arcing answer, it depends on what you are being patient on.

[unclevlad]

Another thing to note about Sweden's numbers...

 

Of the 15 European countries with at least 10,000 reported cases, Sweden has the 5th highest death rate (using CV deaths /  CV cases).  And 

 

Country	cases	deaths	Percent
Russia	68622	615	0.9
Austria	15071	530	3.5
Germany	154545	5723	3.7
Portugal	22797	854	3.7
Poland	10892	494	4.5
Romania	10417	567	5.4
Switzerland	28677	1589	5.5
Ireland	18184	1014	5.6
Spain	219764	22524	10.2
Netherlands	36535	4289	11.7
Sweden	17567	2152	12.3
Italy	192994	25969	13.5
UK	143464	19506	13.6
France	159828	22245	13.9
Belgium	44293	6679	15.1

 

And if you go here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

 

Compare the patterns of daily cases and daily deaths.  There's enough similarity to suggest there's gonna be several more days with high death counts, so that percentage is likely to climb.

[Tjack]

3 hours ago, Old Man said:

       Great!  Stupid people are finally killing themselves off and thus making future generations a little bit smarter.

Usually they do things like drive drunk or fail to vaccinate their litters of kids, killing off stupid and smart randomly.

[unclevlad]

13 minutes ago, Tjack said:

       Great!  Stupid people are finally killing themselves off and thus making future generations a little bit smarter.

Usually they do things like drive drunk or fail to vaccinate their litters of kids, killing off stupid and smart randomly.

 

Unfortunately not supportable.  They gather together in large numbers and perhaps taking themselves out...but in the process, they'll take others with them by being another round of infection loci.

[Badger]

Well, stupid tends to take others with them in general.

[Hermit]

This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both,
and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy,
for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the
writing be erased. Deny it.' cried the Spirit, stretching out
its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye.
Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse.
And abide the end.'

 

-Dickens 

[Badger]

on a basic level, I do get the protestors, it has nothing to do with haircuts (as one certain CNN host who is longer on wind than intelligence*, would have you believe).  People are desperate because money is low (Old Man has covered to why) for people.  People need money to pay mortgages (shelter). Buy food.  ANd other needed materials.  Those problems are real, they have to be dealt with.  You may or may not catch a disease.  Some people do consider a chance vs a sure thing, worry more about the latter.  And people do things they might not have done, when they feel necessities are threatened.

 

Some other bills and fees are more complicated.  But, what should have been done most of all, would be a halt/freeze on mortgage payments (including interest) until this blows over.  The banks can still get their money on a 3-4 months later basis, cant see how it hurts them all that much (essentially go along as if the 3 months or whatever it turns out to be never happened).  Bills are a bit more complicated, but solving that mortgage part, would've strung the money out further.

 

Of course,  on an actual level, protest, seems to be a bad idea, let's say.

 

*Note sure I am allowed to say the blunter version that popped up in my mind

[Cygnia]

Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus 'cure' wrote to Trump this week

 

Quote

The leader of the most prominent group in the US peddling potentially lethal industrial bleach as a “miracle cure” for coronavirus wrote to Donald Trump at the White House this week.

In his letter, Mark Grenon told Trump that chlorine dioxide – a powerful bleach used in industrial processes such as textile manufacturing that can have fatal side-effects when drunk – is “a wonderful detox that can kill 99% of the pathogens in the body”. He added that it “can rid the body of Covid-19”.

A few days after Grenon dispatched his letter, Trump went on national TV at his daily coronavirus briefing at the White House on Thursday and promoted the idea that disinfectant could be used as a treatment for the virus. To the astonishment of medical experts, the US president said that disinfectant “knocks it out in a minute. One minute!”

 

[Tjack]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

 

Unfortunately not supportable.  They gather together in large numbers and perhaps taking themselves out...but in the process, they'll take others with them by being another round of infection loci.

    Not if they drink bleach and die.  Then we just need one guy with a flame thrower to tidy up.

[Badger]

57 minutes ago, Cygnia said:

Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus 'cure' wrote to Trump this week

 

 

 

 

 

In these matters with Trump.  I figure, no he probably didn't fall for it, but just doing his favorite past time, the trolling of the media, to see how many of them he can punk.

 

And if there's one thing that actually deserves a lower opinion than Trump, unfortunately, it is our current media.

[tkdguy]

First Wimbledon was cancelled; now Oktoberfest has been cancelled in Germany.