Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[Christopher R Taylor]

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But this cinematic interpretation of the Mandarin could work as well, particularly with the apparent redefinition of the Ten Rings.

 

It has the double advantage of maybe turning the Mandarin into an actual real threat instead of that pathetic crap from Iron Man 3... and not upsetting the Chinese who for some reason Hollywood is terrified of and kowtows to at every conceivable opportunity.

[Ninja-Bear]

7 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

It has the double advantage of maybe turning the Mandarin into an actual real threat instead of that pathetic crap from Iron Man 3... and not upsetting the Chinese who for some reason Hollywood is terrified of and kowtows to at every conceivable opportunity.

I believe the old adage of money talks-B.S. walks is appropriate.

[Lord Liaden]

Particularly when that enormous market's government is primed to outright ban any entertainment which offends their delicate sensibilities.

[Bazza]

It’s simple: China is a huge opportunity to make money, and that requires playing by their rules of film classification. If a film bypasses China then it has more creative freedom, at the penalty of losing money. To a blockbuster, that can be near-fatal; to a small budget arthouse film, not so much. 
 

Second point: the China cinema industry rivals Hollywood for box office receipts, or maybe now exceeds it. Ergo, Hollywood is dependent on China’s audience, but Chinese cinema is not dependent on Hollywood. 
 

This from 2019 https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/12/30/chinese-film-business-is-doing-unthinkable-thriving-without-hollywood/

 

And this year: https://www.statista.com/topics/5776/film-industry-in-china/#topicHeader__wrapper

[Christopher R Taylor]

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Second point: the China cinema industry rivals Hollywood for box office receipts, or maybe now exceeds it.

 

They never actually got to equal domestic sales, and over the last few years have begun to decline in Hollywood sales, as their own movie industry has grown.  Still, China represents tens of millions of dollars, and that's not easy to pass up.  But so does Russia and Europe, and Hollywood isn't freaked out over annoying those markets.  They don't film special scenes just for Russia, they don't have Russian consultants in to work on the script, etc.

[Hugh Neilson]

On the broader "cinema vs streaming", we saw BW at the new theatre that was just about ready to open when COVID hit.

 

Their concessions are largely self-serve (excuse me, "touchless"), so you pick up your own snacks and go to cashiers on your way into the theatres.  [I note they still control the butter dispensers, though.]

 

Lovely reclining pre-booked seats were nice. 

 

In the pre-show, I lost count of  how many times I heard some variation of how great it was to be back in the theatre seeing movies in the only way they were really meant to be seen.  I think the industry gets just how precarious its current situation is.  But I can also remember the theatres and the screens getting smaller and smaller in the late '80s and early '90s, until they figured out people stopped going, and just waited for the VHS/DVD to watch at home, on a slightly smaller screen without sticking to the floor or having some kid kicking your seat or yapping all through the movie, with their home-purchased snacks.

 

The industry reinvented itself to make going to the movies more of an event then.  I expect they'll have to do it again now.

[csyphrett]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

They never actually got to equal domestic sales, and over the last few years have begun to decline in Hollywood sales, as their own movie industry has grown.  Still, China represents tens of millions of dollars, and that's not easy to pass up.  But so does Russia and Europe, and Hollywood isn't freaked out over annoying those markets.  They don't film special scenes just for Russia, they don't have Russian consultants in to work on the script, etc.

I don't think Russia or Greater Europe just cuts a movie clean off like China will. Part of the failure of Ghostbusters 2016 was China told Sony they couldn't release incountry. That meant the movie had to make all of its money from the rest of the world and it didnt

CES 

[zslane]

Hollywood is becoming dependent on Chinese box office the way western society is dependent on Middle Eastern oil. It is difficult to be the master of your own destiny when you are beholden to someone else's resources.

[Grailknight]

2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

They never actually got to equal domestic sales, and over the last few years have begun to decline in Hollywood sales, as their own movie industry has grown.  Still, China represents tens of millions of dollars, and that's not easy to pass up.  But so does Russia and Europe, and Hollywood isn't freaked out over annoying those markets.  They don't film special scenes just for Russia, they don't have Russian consultants in to work on the script, etc.

 

Russia operates under "realpolitik" They probably are watching Black Widow and picking it apart for flawed procedures and technical inaccuracies and wishing some of the fantastical elements were real. They are much more openly cynical about their government.

 

China is still all about "face". Open criticism of the government and Party is not allowed and the media is under tight control to ensure this. Even fantastical elements like Fu Manchu and the Yellow Claw would be seen as trying to evoke the era of warlords that existed before Mao. So those stories just won't fly.

 

Hollywood makes concessions as it can to keep the money flowing. You don't need the Chinese market to make a successful movie but to make a Summer Blockbuster in the MCU style, it's essential.

[archer]

3 hours ago, Grailknight said:

 

Russia operates under "realpolitik" They probably are watching Black Widow and picking it apart for flawed procedures and technical inaccuracies and wishing some of the fantastical elements were real. They are much more openly cynical about their government.

 

China is still all about "face". Open criticism of the government and Party is not allowed and the media is under tight control to ensure this. Even fantastical elements like Fu Manchu and the Yellow Claw would be seen as trying to evoke the era of warlords that existed before Mao. So those stories just won't fly.

 

Hollywood makes concessions as it can to keep the money flowing. You don't need the Chinese market to make a successful movie but to make a Summer Blockbuster in the MCU style, it's essential.

 

I think a Fu Manchu or a Yellow Claw would work well for China as a villain.

 

Show him as a rebel against the status quo who gets his comeuppance by the hero as the Chinese army bursts down the door.

[Dr.Device]

18 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Of course the number of movies and shows coming out that are watchable has nose-dived in the last few years. 

Yeah, the overall quality of movies and TV has been abysmal for years now.  You can literally pick any year at random from 1930-2000 and get more great films than the last decade.

 

Wow. That's so utterly different from my experience. When you include direct to streaming content, I think we're in a golden age of video content. There is so amazingly much good stuff out there. That's not to says that there isn't a lot of amazing stuff from the past, too, of course. It's just that there's more of it now. Is there a lot of crap being made? Sure. But that's always been true. Sturgeon's law and all. 

 

The thing is, even the stuff that isn't all that great in a critical sense is often a lot of fun. 

 

 

[Greywind]

It's only nose-dived because there's a lot more content to sort through to find the nuggets you might like.

[Starlord]

1 hour ago, Dr.Device said:

 

Wow. That's so utterly different from my experience. When you include direct to streaming content, I think we're in a golden age of video content. There is so amazingly much good stuff out there. That's not to says that there isn't a lot of amazing stuff from the past, too, of course. It's just that there's more of it now. Is there a lot of crap being made? Sure. But that's always been true. Sturgeon's law and all. 

 

The thing is, even the stuff that isn't all that great in a critical sense is often a lot of fun. 

 

 

 

Totally agree.  SO MANY gems out there on streaming services nowadays compared to the outdated, bland dramas and sitcoms produced full of 20 filler episodes a season that they have (and have always had) on regular network TV.  IMO, thanks to streaming, this is actually the golden age of television.

[Christopher R Taylor]

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Part of the failure of Ghostbusters 2016 was China told Sony they couldn't release incountry

 

Would have done fine if it had been better written and directed.  It sucked, and it bombed.

 

I agree that TV content has gotten better, but movies are another story completely.  There's been maybe 2 really great movies made in the last 20 years, and a host of utter crap.  Used to be you'd see 2-5 every single year.  Classics, movies people flocked to, movies that changed culture.

 

 

[Ternaugh]

4 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Would have done fine if it had been better written and directed.  It sucked, and it bombed.

 

I agree that TV content has gotten better, but movies are another story completely.  There's been maybe 2 really great movies made in the last 20 years, and a host of utter crap.  Used to be you'd see 2-5 every single year.  Classics, movies people flocked to, movies that changed culture.

 

 

 

Which two?

[Ninja-Bear]

Are we talking network TV shows? Cause I haven’t seen a good one in a loooong time. My wife and I always thought the advertisements for the Goldbergs were dumb. Out of desperation we watched one episode and now like that show very much.

[Dr.Device]

22 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Would have done fine if it had been better written and directed.  It sucked, and it bombed.

 

I agree that TV content has gotten better, but movies are another story completely.  There's been maybe 2 really great movies made in the last 20 years, and a host of utter crap.  Used to be you'd see 2-5 every single year.  Classics, movies people flocked to, movies that changed culture.

 

 

 

Still a hard disagree. The past twenty years has seen many amazingly good, creative, and original movies.  

[slikmar]

12 hours ago, csyphrett said:

I don't think Russia or Greater Europe just cuts a movie clean off like China will. Part of the failure of Ghostbusters 2016 was China told Sony they couldn't release incountry. That meant the movie had to make all of its money from the rest of the world and it didnt

CES 

 

3 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Would have done fine if it had been better written and directed.  It sucked, and it bombed.

 

I agree that TV content has gotten better, but movies are another story completely.  There's been maybe 2 really great movies made in the last 20 years, and a host of utter crap.  Used to be you'd see 2-5 every single year.  Classics, movies people flocked to, movies that changed culture.

 

 

You beat me too it. I was going to say it might have done better if it hadn't sucked.

[Spence]

3 hours ago, Dr.Device said:

 

Still a hard disagree. The past twenty years has seen many amazingly good, creative, and original movies.  

 

Maybe up to 2010ish.  After that they seemed to forget the entertainment part.  Were there some good or great shows?  Absolutely. 

But for the last 10'ish years the number of US made shows (movies and TV) that are good let alone great or fun are probably in the low 3% of the US output.  The last 4 years have really cratered that average.

 

Most of the movies and TV I watch now are non-US.   And starting to be Non-Canadian or UK as they fall into current Hollywood type shows. 

 

I am discovering a lot of US/Canadian/UK series form the past that I never saw that are worth watching.  And a lot of Korean drama is pretty good. 

Lots of stuff to watch. 

 

When I look at current items I am just depressed with so much of it lacking......well anything resembling entertainment.   Not to mention the constant lying and switch and bait methods on a lot of their most recent stuff. 

[csyphrett]

1 hour ago, slikmar said:

 

You beat me too it. I was going to say it might have done better if it hadn't sucked.

I didn't say it didn't suck cause it did. What i said was that it needed China to break even and China said no.  And Sony knew this going in that they couldn't market GB in China because the political commission have a set of rules which include no ghosts in films.

 

The GBs got GBed

CES

[Grailknight]

1 hour ago, Spence said:

 

Maybe up to 2010ish.  After that they seemed to forget the entertainment part.  Were there some good or great shows?  Absolutely. 

But for the last 10'ish years the number of US made shows (movies and TV) that are good let alone great or fun are probably in the low 3% of the US output.  The last 4 years have really cratered that average.

 

Most of the movies and TV I watch now are non-US.   And starting to be Non-Canadian or UK as they fall into current Hollywood type shows. 

 

I am discovering a lot of US/Canadian/UK series form the past that I never saw that are worth watching.  And a lot of Korean drama is pretty good. 

Lots of stuff to watch. 

 

When I look at current items I am just depressed with so much of it lacking......well anything resembling entertainment.   Not to mention the constant lying and switch and bait methods on a lot of their most recent stuff. 

 

The large amount of content out there confuses the issue. There are so many bad to mediocre shows out that they seem to drown out the good to excellent ones. But the percentages of awful, bad, mediocre, good and excellent stuff is pretty much the same with possibly a shift towards the middle overall.

 

Remember, we're judging new content against not just other new content but also against everything that's come before and some older stuff gets bonus points because it was the original . So the classic westerns, detective stories and war movies hold up pretty well while the SFX heavy genres of sci-fi and fantasy lean heavily to more modern stuff. 

 

Movies and TV haven't gotten worse, our standards have gotten higher.

 

 

 

 

[Lord Liaden]

Much of the really cutting-edge drama these days is being done for television, while movies tend toward broadest-appeal films. It used to be the reverse, when television was the medium targeted for the masses. But as the range of channels and services has proliferated, television has more and more had to find niche markets appealing to specific tastes and expectations; whereas films, more and more obsessed with blockbuster box office, is aiming for as many targets as possible with every release.

 

I'll just add that one person's junk is someone else's treasure, one size does not fit all, etc.

[Greywind]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

one size does not fit all, etc.

 

That's why Banner wears stretch pants.

[Bazza]

 

[Greywind]