Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[Hugh Neilson]

36 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

He didn't have the endpoints. Doing it properly would have entailed a long conversation with Peter before they started to finalize the details and instructions to not speak up and change things. If a typical group of players can discuss how to use a wish for 10-15 minutes before giving the GM the final version, a supposed Sorcerer Supreme candidate should be able to plan one out also.

 

If a typical movie portrayed a typical PC group over-analyzing micro decisions, we would likely have stopped producing movies a long time ago.

[Old Man]

1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

If a typical movie portrayed a typical PC group over-analyzing micro decisions, we would likely have stopped producing movies a long time ago.

 

Oh, I see you've met my gaming group.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah they portrayed Dr Strange as a complete imbecile in both No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness, it was very frustrating.  It was bad characterization just to move a plot point.  And Strange isn't supposed to be arrogant, not after becoming a sorcerer.  I mean, they didn't play it out very well int he movies, but it took him like 10-20 issues of his comic to come to a point of enlightenment, yet he was changed almost immediately by coming into contact with something transcendent, something far greater than himself.

[Bazza]

If Strange is portrayed correctly ie as a competent and consummate professional that he is, he doesn’t make a mistake and there is no movie. 

[Pattern Ghost]

11 minutes ago, Bazza said:

If Strange is portrayed correctly ie as a competent and consummate professional that he is, he doesn’t make a mistake and there is no movie. 

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Old Man]

Posted my spoiler free review of The Marvels over in the WHYWR? thread, so as not to derail yet another discussion of exactly how arrogant Dr. Strange is supposed to be. 

[unclevlad]

One of my favorite authors, Marion G. Harmon (Wearing the Cape series) also posted a review.  He echoed many of the points you did.  He was not enamored of the writing, and felt the side story with Ms. Marvel was a bad idea, given the limited screen time.

[Starlord]

18 hours ago, mattingly said:

 

I recommend it! The show really captured the feel of the comic. 

 

Seconded - she was the best thing by far about the Marvels move as well.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

This was from my FB review of Marvels....

 

Movie review: The Marvels (2023). This sequel to the 2019 original links itself to other Phase 4 projects...namely the Wandavision and Ms. Marvel tv series. The plot involves the Kree trying to revive their homeworld while also taking revenge on Carol Danvers. This film works best when it focuses on the interaction between the three leads. The three actresses play off of each other fairly well and they provide most of the movie's best moments. The villain unfortunately isn't all that memorable and certain elements of the story delve into the silly. Still, this is reasonably solid. That end credit sequence though. NIIIIICE!!!!

[Old Man]

19 hours ago, unclevlad said:

One of my favorite authors, Marion G. Harmon (Wearing the Cape series) also posted a review.  He echoed many of the points you did.  He was not enamored of the writing, and felt the side story with Ms. Marvel was a bad idea, given the limited screen time.

 

Harmon got it totally, utterly wrong if he thought Marvels needed less Ms. Marvel.  I shall elaborate within this spoiler tag:

 

Spoiler

First of all both Danvers and Rambeau are all business, which was part of the problem with the first Captain Marvel film.  (Like, seriously, Danvers mostly refused to dance on Aladna.). At minimum Kamala was needed to prevent this film from turning into Man of Steel.

 

More importantly, Kamala served as the catalyst to resolve the tension between Rambeau and Danvers.  Without her there, even if the situation called for them to work together, it's unlikely that they would have resolved their differences if Kamala wasn't there getting them to open up.

 

Thirdly, the film could have used Kamala's newb status to recount the events leading up to the movies, and provide a new perspective.  For example, Danvers' history with the Kree is way too glossed over.  (You know, the part where they kidnapped her, experimented on her, mind controlled her, and used her to genocide Skrulls.). Yet in Marvels, Danvers actually feels guilty about what has happened to the Kree.  If the point of the story is that heroes can't just zip around blowing stuff up, but that they have to be part of the rebuilding process, Kamala would have been the perfect person to voice it.

 

(As an aside, Kamala watched Skrulls die and had her own family attacked by Kree scumbags, in her own living room, and she took it awfully well for a rookie.  It might have been a bit more interesting if she hadn't.)

 

Lastly, the one thing that really sets Kamala apart from most of the rest of the MCU is that she actually has a family.  Danvers is estranged from her own parents, Rambeau is yet another orphaned superhero, the whole found-family theme is right there and I can't believe Marvels didn't take better advantage of it.  If nothing else it would have been the perfect excuse to give Kamala's mom more screen time; she was phenomenal in the series.

 

IMO of course.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

If Strange is portrayed correctly ie as a competent and consummate professional that he is, he doesn’t make a mistake and there is no movie. 

 

If your choice is "make Dr Strange an idiot who ruins everything" and "come up with another way" any sane and competent writer finds a better way.  Like, Spider-Man cannot actually contact Dr Strange but he finds some hedge wizard guy who screws everything up and Doc has to fix it.

 

I haven't seen The Marvels, and probably never will, but its doing abysmally in theaters.  Apparently fans have had enough Marvel until they can get back to their roots and make better product.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Christopher R Taylor

[Pattern Ghost]

2 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

some hedge wizard guy

 

Or some guy whose name rhymes with Maron Bordo.

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I haven't seen The Marvels, and probably never will, but its doing abysmally in theaters.  

 

Oh my.  You might be understating it...

 

 

[csyphrett]

How long is Marvels going to be in the theater? It's already made half of its budget in one week.

CES

[Grailknight]

It's not a bad movie but it's not great. i could have done with a lot less flerkin content and more of the main characters. 

 

For reasons I can't understand, a large portion of the usual MCU audience has antipathy towards Brie Larson and have attacked both Captain Marvel movies sight unseen. The Marvels, IMO, is better than Thor 2 and 4 and Incredible Hulk and as good as Iron Man 3 and GotG 2. It has flaws but MCU fatigue may be more to blame than the quality of the film.

[Old Man]

8 minutes ago, Grailknight said:

For reasons I can't understand, a large portion of the usual MCU audience has antipathy towards Brie Larson and have attacked both Captain Marvel movies sight unseen.

 

I don't understand them but I know what the reasons are.  Sadly.

[Bazza]

 I do understand them and I know what the reasons are.  

[mattingly]

8 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Like, Spider-Man cannot actually contact Dr Strange but he finds some hedge wizard guy who screws everything up and Doc has to fix it.

 

This is a job for... Señor Mágico!

 

[Lord Liaden]

11 hours ago, Grailknight said:

For reasons I can't understand, a large portion of the usual MCU audience has antipathy towards Brie Larson and have attacked both Captain Marvel movies sight unseen. The Marvels, IMO, is better than Thor 2 and 4 and Incredible Hulk and as good as Iron Man 3 and GotG 2. It has flaws but MCU fatigue may be more to blame than the quality of the film.

 

11 hours ago, Old Man said:

 

I don't understand them but I know what the reasons are.  Sadly.

 

6 hours ago, Bazza said:

 I do understand them and I know what the reasons are.  

 

What I've been able to find about the "reasons" suggest they're exaggerated, taken out of context, or fabricated.

[Christopher R Taylor]

All you have to do to find out why someone might not be Brie Larson's biggest fan, you probably ought to ask them rather than guess or assume.  For example, many find her very off-putting, lacking charisma, and incredibly annoying in interviews.  Just look at how her fellow actors act around her in interviews: they clearly find her very obnoxious and unlikable.

[Lord Liaden]

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Lord Liaden

[BarretWallace]

For my part, my experience of the MCU came to a satisfying close with Endgame.  Essentially, I'm an outsider with respect to the post-Endgame stuff.  Now, there may be perfectly good offerings available, but I feel like Marvel has barfed out a prodigious volume of content, and just to catch up would take more time than I'd care to spend at present.  Maybe some day I'll dive back in, especially if they ever slow down a little.

Maybe it's an age thing too.  To use an eating metaphor, these days I'd rather savor each bite vs. wolf down every plate as fast as I can.

[Pattern Ghost]

The Captain Marvel characterization in the MCU so far has been, to be charitable, bad. They decided to go with a female version of Maverick from Top Gun, which was lazy shorthand, inaccurate to the character known to comics fans, and failed to actually capture the essence of the Maverick character.

 

Movies are a group effort, so it's hard to say how much of that is the actress, and how much is what is asked of the actress. I don't care what she does off screen (within reason), but I don't like this iteration of Captain Marvel. Given that the actress likely has less input into what were some cringeworthy scenes in the movie, I suspect the issues lie more with the director/production side. (She doesn't seem to be a comics fan, so I'm seeing a lot of her ideas of the character being driven by what she was told by production.) Captain Marvel wasn't the worse MCU effort, but it was low-middle of the pack at best.

 

I've only seen Larson in United States of Tara, where she played a supporting part, but didn't have any issues with her acting there. My wife has seen another movie with her that she said was good, so I'll take her word for it. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how good or bad she is, or whether she has given a good or bad impression in interviews.

 

The question is: Is this a good representation of Carol Danvers? I think she's off the mark, personality-wise. I'm hoping it's because of the origin shift and intentional to represent the trauma of the brain washing. One review I saw suggested this angle is at least somewhat addressed by The Marvels, so I intend to watch it when it comes to streaming and find out.

 

I think the bigger problem than any one actor is that Marvel has continually brought in directors, producers and writers who have no understanding of the comic book genre or respect for it. It will take creators with an understanding of the material and the insight to pull out the best of it and shape it into an enjoyable movie to move the franchise forward. 

 

 

[Bazza]

I think this version is much better.

 

 

[csyphrett]

marvels needs 87 mill to break even on budget.

CES