Captain Marvel with spoilers

[mallet]

I also found the movie just okay. Definitely in the lower end of the Marvel films. Most of that was from the writing and pacing of the film. The stakes never felt that high and once Carol got her full powers near the end she still had trouble fighting the Kree, but at the sametime could blow up starship and massive bombs, etc... All the needed to do was drop one line of hers in there about her not wanting to kill her former team and it would have made more sense, but she never says that and it seems like she is trying to kill them, so why is that so hard for her to do? Are the other Kree so tough that a shot from her doesn't kill them, but can blow apart a spaceship?

 

The movie also raised another issue that I think the MCU needs to resolve very soon give how cosmic the films are getting. How does space travel work in the universe? We know there are jumpgates, as seen in this movie, GotG, Thor Ragnarok, etc... that allow the jumping of large distances in shorter amounts of time (although it still takes some time) and some jumpgates go further and faster then others, but there are times when they also seem to be traveling at "warp speed" (faster then light, but not using a jumpgate) like in Infinity War when the Guardians are looking for the Asguarding distress call and Tony, Dr. Strange and Spidy are on Thano's ship heading to Titan and a few other instances I am sure I am forgetting. And then there is the Bifrost used by Thor that allows almost instant transportation across the galaxy, and we know that the bifrost in the MCU is just super advanced technology and not magic (as stated in the first Thor movie). Yet the big "McGuffin" in this film is a ship/technology that goes "lightspeed" oooo... wow... a ship that could go at the speed of light that could help save the Skrulls by taking them to a different galaxy in what? Something like 2 million years going at the speed of light? Why is a ship that goes slower then other current technologies so important? And then at the end it looks like Carol and the Skrulls just fly away into space at super fast "warp" speed anyway, without a special drive or any other special technology and they don't use the jumpgates like the Kree did. 

[Starlord]

As far as the fights at the end, the way I read it was that she didn't get full control over her powers until she was blown out of the ship and was plumetting to Earth.  Inside the ship, she was starting to figure out her abilities.  There was more than one occasion where she was surprised and he even injured herself because of her awkwardness.  However, when she was falling she seems to have this moment of focus where she finally learns to go 'binary'.

 

Now as far as MCU space travel goes, this movie did seem to muddle the waters even more.  I've also been confused by how it works.  I don't mind when Sci-Fi gets wacky and I don't mind pseudo-science and it's accompany techno-babble, but I do want consistency, darnit!

[Bazza]

 

[slikmar]

On March 7, 2019 at 8:33 PM, RDU Neil said:

 

THAT'S how Fury loses his eye? THAT'S how the Avengers come to be? It was like they took the worst writers of the Agents of SHIELD series and said, "YOu get a movie!" 
 

I have to ask, having not seen yet, but didn't they imply in winter soldier that Fury lost his eye taking a bullet for Redford's character sometime back. Is that in this movie?

[RDU Neil]

9 minutes ago, slikmar said:

I have to ask, having not seen yet, but didn't they imply in winter soldier that Fury lost his eye taking a bullet for Redford's character sometime back. Is that in this movie?

 

That wasn't in the movie... no. Not at all. 

[slikmar]

Ok, I was wondering based on your post. Thought you were saying they showed how he lost his eye, which would seem to have been in contrast to what was implied in Winter Soldier.

[megaplayboy]

I am gratified that the "anti-SJW backlash" largely failed to materialize in any manner that actually significantly affected box office revenues.  If anything, at this point the "anti-SJW" rants have gotten more obnoxious than any excesses of "political correctness" from the left side of the aisle, imo.  

[Pariah]

I found this article informative on that point:

 

Did Brie Larson Say Captain Marvel 'Wasn't Made For' White Men?

 

to;dr version: No, that's not what she said, and what she did say wasn't even about Captain Marvel.

[Greywind]

7 hours ago, slikmar said:

Ok, I was wondering based on your post. Thought you were saying they showed how he lost his eye, which would seem to have been in contrast to what was implied in Winter Soldier.

 

"You know, there was a time when I would've taken a bullet for you."
"You already did. You will again, when it's useful."

[Hugh Neilson]

On 3/7/2019 at 9:33 PM, RDU Neil said:

 

Wow... usually we agree on things, but I can't be further from any of this. Wonder Woman and Gadot were top notch, with a level of passion and innocence, while Larson slept through this movie.

 

Picked RDU Neil's comments because they include a lot of things I wanted to comment on.  Saw it on Friday.  I place it more "middle of the pack", but I'd rate WW quite a bit higher.  That may, in part, reflect Marvel having set a bar much higher than DC.

 

On 3/7/2019 at 9:33 PM, RDU Neil said:

The complete lack of Djimon Hounsou or Lee Pace having ANY point in being in this movie...

 

I'd say the point was linking this movie to characters seen in later space Marvel movies - more cameos than roles.

 

On 3/7/2019 at 9:33 PM, RDU Neil said:

 the absolutely stupid Flerkin use...

 

I felt the Flerkin use was over the top, and could/should have been markedly toned down. The theatre laughed pretty loud, though.

 

On 3/7/2019 at 9:33 PM, RDU Neil said:

the pathetic portrayal of Skrulls somehow using American vernacular with Aussie accents and being inept at using their shapeshifting in any useful way. They are just happy-homemaker refugees? WTF?

 

As a disguise ability, the "warrior skrulls" seems pretty effective shape-shifters.  The others, as noncombatants, had no real use for it.  But I don't think MCU Skrulls are capable of as much variety as comic book Skrulls.  Someone had to be "the resistance/refugees", and picking an established Marvel race with enmity to the Kree seems reasonable.  Looks like we will not be seeing a "Kree-Skrull War" - it's over and the Skrulls lost.

 

On 3/7/2019 at 9:33 PM, RDU Neil said:

THAT'S how Fury loses his eye? THAT'S how the Avengers come to be?

 

Fury's eye being played for a cheap laugh was, to me, the absolute low point of the film by a long shot.  Fury's inspiration for the Avengers made sense to me, and made for a good closer for his arc in the movie.

 

On 3/7/2019 at 9:33 PM, RDU Neil said:

"I don't have to prove anything to you."  That's her big line?

 

I don't think it was "her big line", but I did find it refreshing to have her not take Yon-Rogg up on his challenge.  Why should she?  She had already found herself, and that was the real conflict of the piece.  Having her not put up with his crap was a refreshing change from the usual "huge set piece fight with antagonist" ending.

 

On 3/7/2019 at 9:33 PM, RDU Neil said:

The entire lack of a plot was entirely predictable. The "I can stop dozens of nuclear missiles and a squadron of attack ships in a few flashes of light, but it takes me ten minutes to fight my way through a few Kree soldiers? She's WAY OP for anything in the Marvel Universe as portrayed so far, because if they port all this over to Avengers: End Game... what's the point of the rest of the team?

 

The plot must have been a challenge.  Comic geeks know who Kree and Skrulls are, but moviegoers don't.  Could MCU  make Skrulls the Bad Guys and Kree the Galaxy's Protectors? Sure - we've never seen Skrulls before, and the only Kree we've seen in MCU (as opposed to AoS) were extremists in GoTG, who could be a fringe element (as could a criminal group in AoS - we know little about the Kree in MCU general).  They didn't take that route, but they could have.

 

Much of the movie surrounded Carol discovering how powerful she really is, and how to harness it.  And the comics have plenty of characters take out missiles and starships, but struggle toe to toe with humanoid opponents.  I'm not sure we really have a handle on her power level as compared to IW Thor, as a high powered example.  He took out the whole invasion force in Wakanda - what's the point of the rest of the team, who were being opverpowered brutally at the time?

 

Departing from other commentary, on reflection I like how much of the Captain Marvel history they managed to use in some way.  She still gets her powers from an accident with Kree technology, and looks up to a rogue Kree (still named Mar-Vell).  Her working with the Kree only to discover, while stuck on Earth, that the Kree are not the good guys, was a nice homage to Mar-Vell's own journey of discovery.  Her memory loss tips the hat to a similar loss to Rogue in the comics.

 

I liked the use of the Rambeau name - Monika should be old enough now to become Photon as more than Mom's call sign - perhaps that is in the works (or at least the back of someone's mind).  The audience got all excited for a female Superhero and a black Superhero - I wonder what a female black Superhero could do to the movie sales...but that's a character who is obscure even by MCU standards.  But even if it was just one more Easter egg for comic readers, it was another element of the comic Captain Marvel mythos.

 

I also liked the fact that they appear to now be focusing on her energy-based powers, so she's not one more Marvel Martial Artist (I liked Dr. Strange, but would have liked it more if he were a spellcaster, not a martial artist with glowy weapons - I'm glad IW developed more in that direction).  Perhaps Endgame will highlight  the limits of her powers.  Maybe she could "go nova" in this movie because she had stored up a lot of energy over 6 years of suppressed powers, but can't maintain that pace forever.

 

What I did not like in the plot - she's that powerful, but they just integrate her into a Kree military subunit for six years and hope it will all work out?  That was a major conceit in the movie that does not hold up well to close inspection.  But then, the Supreme Intelligence always thinks many steps ahead - maybe there is a reason (for some aspiring movie maker to reveal a few more films down the road, if they did not think it through yet)  In the comics, the Kree are at an evolutionary dead end and SI is looking for a way to spark them into evolving.

 

One element missing was the Kree politics of blue versus pink Kree, but that could reasonably have been kept hidden from "Vers" during her time on Hala by minimizing her contact with political issues.

 

Overall, a decent popcorn movie, and as a flashback to introduce the character, it could  not have been a lot more.  Some items (flerkin...) I could have lived without, but overall not a bad addition to the Marvel stable.

[Scott Ruggels]

14 hours ago, megaplayboy said:

I am gratified that the "anti-SJW backlash" largely failed to materialize in any manner that actually significantly affected box office revenues.  If anything, at this point the "anti-SJW" rants have gotten more obnoxious than any excesses of "political correctness" from the left side of the aisle, imo.  

Yes, but the Anti-SJW crowd, does;'t beat you with bike locks.

[L. Marcus]

No, they use cars.

[Scott Ruggels]

8 minutes ago, L. Marcus said:

No, they use cars.

Once... but...

 

*Applause* Well played XD

[Jagged]

Like many I found that a middling MCU movie. I did enjoy it more than WW, if that means anything. Probably not, since I don't really like DC movies. Fingers crossed for Shazam. 

 

Given how some people I know were excited by the cat, I found that something of an anticlimax. Likewise the reveal of Fury's eye.

 

The de-aging tech worked well. Except for Coulson for some reason. Please let me know when this can be applied outside the cinema

 

[slikmar]

4 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

What I did not like in the plot - she's that powerful, but they just integrate her into a Kree military subunit for six years and hope it will all work out?  That was a major conceit in the movie that does not hold up well to close inspection.  But then, the Supreme Intelligence always thinks many steps ahead - maybe there is a reason (for some aspiring movie maker to reveal a few more films down the road, if they did not think it through yet)  In the comics, the Kree are at an evolutionary dead end and SI is looking for a way to spark them into evolving.

Perhaps the SI foresaw Thanos's insane plot (something he apparently had tried but failed to finish before) coming about and wanted a being out there capable of stopping him.

I find it interesting that as Fox struggles with the Phoenix storyline, Marvel studios has created a female hero close to that power level (though with different powers). Damn I wish they hadn't retried that storyline before Marvel got the X-Men back.

[drunkonduty]

8 hours ago, Jagged said:

The de-aging tech worked well. Except for Coulson for some reason. Please let me know when this can be applied outside the cinema

 

 Ooh! Me too.

[drunkonduty]

On 3/8/2019 at 3:33 PM, RDU Neil said:

 

Wow... usually we agree on things, but I can't be further from any of this. Wonder Woman and Gadot were top notch, with a level of passion and innocence, while Larson slept through this movie. It was like every line was her just sitting there with no inflection until she noticed someone off camera pointing at her and she just reads the line. Every back and forth with Fury was so awkward, I kept expecting the '70s era sitcom laugh track to kick in to try and get some yuks. THe complete lack of Djimon Hounsou or Lee Pace having ANY point in being in this movie... the absolutely stupid Flerkin use... the pathetic portrayal of Skrulls somehow using American vernacular with Aussie accents and being inept at using their shapeshifting in any useful way. They are just happy-homemaker refugees? WTF?

THAT'S how Fury loses his eye? THAT'S how the Avengers come to be? It was like they took the worst writers of the Agents of SHIELD series and said, "YOu get a movie!" 

"I don't have to prove anything to you."  That's her big line?

 

The entire lack of a plot was entirely predictable. The "I can stop dozens of nuclear missiles and a squadron of attack ships in a few flashes of light, but it takes me ten minutes to fight my way through a few Kree soldiers? She's WAY OP for anything in the Marvel Universe as portrayed so far, because if they port all this over to Avengers: End Game... what's the point of the rest of the team?

This movie was god awful. I didn't think anything could take the bottom spot from GotG2, but this did, by far. (The same way they ham-fisted the humor in GotG2 so that it was cringe-worthy, they beat the '90s references to death. ugh ugh ugh.)

 

@RDU Neil

 

I agree that Captain Marvel is now way over powered compared to the rest of the MCU. Nor do I like the disparity between her fighting Kree hand to hand (she was pointedly holding back, I don't know why she felt the need to hold back, but she did) and taking out a Kree battle fleet. But I still liked it more than the final fight in WW which had me fidgeting in my seat with boredom.

 

Carol Danvers is much more nuanced than Princess Diana. I think Larson did a very good job bringing out that nuance. Gadot did a fine job, just not very nuanced. Okay, she wasn't asked to do a lot of nuance. Maybe in another role we will see Gadot displaying some more exceptional acting talents. But comparing WW/CM ... Larson.

 

Okay, maybe I shouldn't be comparing. (Who the hell am I to tell either of them how to act? I sure can't act.) But they're now the female leads in the competing brands so it's gonna happen.

 

"I don't have anything to prove to you." is a great line. But before I go on about it, I should maybe ask my female friends what they think of it. It may indeed be weak sauce to the female audience for whom it is clearly intended. But I liked it.

 

CM (the movie) did everything understated. WW (the movie)  did everything BIG. Both approaches are fine. I prefer the first.

 

I will say I hoped for a better pay-off in the end. A BIGGER pay-off even. I think what would have made that pay-off for me would be if the movie had given more play to the parallels between her back of story growing up and eventually achieving her goal of becoming a pilot, and her breaking free of her Kree mental conditioning. It was there, obviously. But I would have liked to see more development of her  background, to make it more impactful.

 

As for changes to the Skrull, or anything else, between the comics universe and the cinematic: I have no problem. Skrull with Aussie accents? Bonza, mate. (Oh, and believe me, you hear plenty of Aussie accents using Americanisms.)

 

I liked Goose. But then I have a soft spot for cats. And flerkins too, it would seem. My wife loved Goose.

 

But it's a solid movie with good standout  bits (I liked Larson, both for herself and with Jackson. And Jackson and the cat. And Aussie Skrull.) The fight scenes were good (bar the taking out of the Kree fleet.) The plot was fine. It's an origin story, the plots for those things are never great, but I liked that they did it differently.

 

I don't rate this as my favourite MCU movie. That's still Captain America First Avenger. (Top five: CA 1st Avenger, Thor Ragnarok, Black Panther, Winter Soldier, GotG1. Maybe not that order...) But it's good, probably top 10.

 

I should also mention I loved the soundtrack. (Would have preferred to hear Amethyst to Celebrity Skin, but it's Disney movie.)

 

 

[DreadDomain]

On 3/8/2019 at 1:41 PM, RDU Neil said:

Wow it was bad.

 

I'm sad to say, but Marvel made its first really bad movie. (I've not read other comments in this thread, yet, but I will.)

 

The writing and directing were the level of a bad after-school special. The Action scenes were badly staged, the plot was... pointless. Everyone, not just Larson, was stiff and awkward, with dialogue that was completely flat. The movie lacked heart in every way... I honestly shocked that this was allowed to be released. It didn't know if it wanted to be Guardians funny (it wasn't) or Avengers dramatic (it wasn't) or Ant-Man heartfelt (it wasn't)... it was a mess.

 

My wife was very unhappy. She wanted... badly... to like it and said, "Like thirty minutes in, I realized, I just didn't care about any of it. It was so stiff and just... whatever. I kept saying, "But this is Captain Marvel!" and am just SO disappointed."

 

So bad... I'm frankly amazed Feige let this be released.

I am not as definitive than RDU Neil, I get where he is coming from. The movie was entertaining with an execution similar to an 80s or 90s action movie: predictable plot driving action sequences, cliche dialogue, cheap humour, good sountrack.

I personally thought Larson was wooden. I really did not care about the character and for that matter did not find anything to conect to emotionally.

I found the Skrulls faily pathetic as oppressed refugees and their situation was further cheapened by the somewhat light-hearted demeanor of their leader (forgot the name). The general "let's try to be funny" approach of the whole movie was distracting and the flerkin simply became an annoyance.

Nick Fury, cracking jokes and generally useless, was the low point of the whole movie. I heard people complain about Batman being to humourous in JL, let's try having Nick Fury as comic relief in CM instead (including the was he lost his eye).

 

At the end of the movie, my 10 yo daughter told me she "liked the movie because it was funny and tha cat and Fury were hilarious."

 

Was it entertaining? Yes. Was it a good movie, not really no.

[DreadDomain]

On 3/8/2019 at 8:49 AM, drunkonduty said:

Inevitable comparison to Wonder Woman: Captain Marvel is a better movie than Wonder Woman on every level.  Larson is a much better actor than Gadot. Danvers is a much more interesting character than Diana. The supporting cast is much better. The final action scene is much better. The villains are TONNES better. Better story. Better character development for everyone. A cat. Er, sorry, flerkin.

Yes, it is inevitable. Wonder Woman was leaps and bounds better than Captain Marvel. I cared for Gadot while Larson was just in the movie. Danvers could have been an interesting character but was merely a cardboard figure in the movie and the supporting cast in CM, Fury leading the pack, was annoying at best. However, I tend to agree that the final action scene is better and that the vilains are more interesting (the visuals for that part of WW was not the greatest). WW had a better story, better character development and thank God, no flerkin

 

As they say, to each his own (is this what they say?)!

[Lord Liaden]

I believe it's fair to point out that this is Brie Larson's first foray into this character, and this genre. Not everyone in these franchises hits it out of the park on their first try. Chris Evans didn't get a firm handle on how to play Steve Rogers until Winter Soldier. Chris Hemsworth took until Ragnarok to find an interpretation of Thor that seemed to connect with most moviegoers. (Not one I personally liked, but that's beside the point.) For my part, I'm willing to give Larson some time to see if she grows into the role.

[RDU Neil]

9 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

The movie was entertaining with an execution similar to an 80s or 90s action movie: predictable plot driving action sequences, cliche dialogue, cheap humour, good sountrack.

 

Yes... it occurred to me afterwards that this might be what they were aiming for... let's not just set the movie in the '90s, but film the movie LIKE IT WAS A 90s movie... and that was a horrible choice.

 

This movie also asked no hard questions... it had no thematic heart. What was this movie about? Winter Soldier asked about fear and safety at the expense of freedom, Black Panther was about isolationism, tribalism, colonial diaspora, etc., Civil War was about responsibility of power and making wrong decisions, Wonder Woman was about acknowledging that humanity really is shitty but there are things worth fighting for... Captain Marvel was about nothing... what... maybe checking the fan-service boxes for pop-culture references and the shallowest, most superficial "grrrrl power"... while sanitizing it of any thing remotely weighty or emotionally resonant. Heck, Ant-Man & the Wasp was WAY better and even at second billing, Hope Van Dyne had more emotional resonance (she wants her mom back) and toughness (You'd never have been caught... now THAT'S a line!)... than CM had.

 

And if the Skrulls really were happy homemaker refugees... then why did they even try to kill Danvers at the phone booth or copy Coulson and attack Fury. That made no sense at all at that point, because their Leader already knew that CM was special after hooking her up to the machine. Heck... why leave that last Skrull to get butchered for no reason by Yon-Rogg? What did that serve?

This movie was made for lowest common denominator, bland, avoiding controversy or complexity of any kind mindsets. This, along with the awful "bro humor" of GotG are supposed to be the future of Marvel? No thank you.

[Hugh Neilson]

11 hours ago, drunkonduty said:

I will say I hoped for a better pay-off in the end. A BIGGER pay-off even. I think what would have made that pay-off for me would be if the movie had given more play to the parallels between her back of story growing up and eventually achieving her goal of becoming a pilot, and her breaking free of her Kree mental conditioning. It was there, obviously. But I would have liked to see more development of her  background, to make it more impactful

 

It could have been enhanced by SI manipulation - letting memories slip where Carol failed (trying to drive her down - she really isn't good for much and needs the Kree/the SI) only to have her recognize that her strength comes not from succeeding every time she tries, but from never giving up - every time she fell, she got back up.  That's strength, not weakness.  That was the sense I got from that final mental montage where every scene we saw previously, (that looked like failure) was extended to her getting back up, ready to keep trying, even while everyone around her was telling her "you can't do it - give up".  Rediscovering that inner strength was her real victory.  After that, she knew she had nothing to prove to Yon-Rogg.

 

To me, the scene hammered that pretty heavy, and I did not want or need it beaten into my head any more than it already was.

 

But I would agree no scene in Captain Marvel matched the Wonder Woman scene where she climbed the ladder out of the trench and walked across No Man's Land.

[Christopher]

On 3/8/2019 at 4:41 AM, RDU Neil said:

Wow it was bad.

 

I'm sad to say, but Marvel made its first really bad movie. (I've not read other comments in this thread, yet, but I will.)

 

The writing and directing were the level of a bad after-school special. The Action scenes were badly staged, the plot was... pointless. Everyone, not just Larson, was stiff and awkward, with dialogue that was completely flat. The movie lacked heart in every way... I honestly shocked that this was allowed to be released. It didn't know if it wanted to be Guardians funny (it wasn't) or Avengers dramatic (it wasn't) or Ant-Man heartfelt (it wasn't)... it was a mess.

 

My wife was very unhappy. She wanted... badly... to like it and said, "Like thirty minutes in, I realized, I just didn't care about any of it. It was so stiff and just... whatever. I kept saying, "But this is Captain Marvel!" and am just SO disappointed."

 

So bad... I'm frankly amazed Feige let this be released.

There is some argument that it suffered from the "Prequel" Problem. Similar to the Star Wars Prequel Trillogy, we already knew how everything major would turn out:

We knew the Kree were A-holes from Guardians.

We knew Fury would end up with the Tessaract again from Thor/Avengers 1.

We knew she would end up free, but away fromt he planet.

We knew she would kick all the Kree's behinds.

We knew she would give Fury that Galactic Pager.

 

There was no room for Huge surprises, so they focussed on the little ones.

And at least for me and my friends, that did work out. But then we also enjoyed the story of Star Wars 1-3, so it might be a fundamental difference in goals from a movie.

[Michael Hopcroft]

My thoughts:

 

It was good, but not spectacularly good. That's OK because Black Panther set an impossibly high standard and I knew going in that this movie wasn't going to meet it.

 

That said, it played to tropes. I am upset that it has been getting hate from "fans" simply because of the casting. Which is not at all fair, and to put it bluntly sick. Random commenters on Rotten Tomatoes are not gooing to decide whether I'm seeing a movie. I leave getting opinions on film; to the people who see 100 movies a year as part of their jobs. And Brie Larson was fine. And when it did play to tropes it played to them well.

 

Of course, the Kree turned out to be that bad guys. That was something I expected but was still surprised when it happened. and the Skrull (the ones who were sent to Earth at least) were not entirely blameless for their actions. They had to do what they did, I'll give them that, but inspiring paranoia isn't a great thing to do. It reminded me of a somewhat about average Doctor Who episode, and the Skrill makeup was terrible. 

 

Still, I enjoyed it. It wasn't a night at the movies (or a Cinemark club ticket) wasted. Again, Black Panther set an impossibly high standard for superhero films. I remembered that, and never expected Captain Marvel to meet that standard.

[Greywind]

I thought Winter Soldier was about how far you'd go to save a friend.