Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase Three and BEYOOOOONND

[pinecone]

On 12/22/2021 at 8:28 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

Unfortunately I think you're right, it feels like a different  production company despite the tons of crossover things.  I am concerned that they are increasingly making Dr Strange look like a bumbling ass, though.

DOCTOR bumbling a$$!

[Starlord]

- As for Dr. Strange:  Well, arrogance also led Tony Stark to think he couldn't make mistakes either.

 

 

- As for Hawkeye:  I did not finish Daredevil, but did MCU Kingpin become superhuman at some point?  I mean I understand that so-called 'normal' supers survive things they shouldn't but that was so extreme it became confusing...other than that it was a great finale to Hawkeye.

[Pattern Ghost]

Kingpin's suits are bullet and cut resistant. Plus, he's extremely tough, and able to move around when he's seriously injured. So, in the one scene, he probably took some internal damage that he was pushing through, and he was acting a little concussed too, IMO.

[Bazza]

12 hours ago, Starlord said:

- As for Dr. Strange:  Well, arrogance also led Tony Stark to think he couldn't make mistakes either.

 

 

- As for Hawkeye:  I did not finish Daredevil, but did MCU Kingpin become superhuman at some point?  I mean I understand that so-called 'normal' supers survive things they shouldn't but that was so extreme it became confusing...other than that it was a great finale to Hawkeye.

Daredevil Kingpin is a different character, but their may be “crossover” with the earlier series, as Kingpin lost a lot of control of “his” city and with Hawkeye, wants it back. The actor has approached Kingpin in the same way he did on Daredevil. 

[Ninja-Bear]

15 hours ago, Starlord said:

- As for Dr. Strange:  Well, arrogance also led Tony Stark to think he couldn't make mistakes either.

 

 

- As for Hawkeye:  I did not finish Daredevil, but did MCU Kingpin become superhuman at some point?  I mean I understand that so-called 'normal' supers survive things they shouldn't but that was so extreme it became confusing...other than that it was a great finale to Hawkeye.

I was wondering that too. 

[Ternaugh]

3 hours ago, Bazza said:

Daredevil Kingpin is a different character, but their may be “crossover” with the earlier series, as Kingpin lost a lot of control of “his” city and with Hawkeye, wants it back. The actor has approached Kingpin in the same way he did on Daredevil. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/06/entertainment/daredevil-casting-charlie-cox/index.html

[Christopher R Taylor]

Wasn't Charlie Cox in a cameo in No Way Home?  He's listed in the cast and crew.

 

I wonder how MCU canon this is?

[Pariah]

Canon is hard to maintain over 20 some odd movies and a bunch of TV series. I mean, Tony Stark referred to Dad Bod Thor as Lebowski; if Lebowski exists in the MCU, how did Tony never realize that Obadiah Stane looks an awful lot like him?

[zslane]

Also, isn't Superman referenced in the dialog of Eternals?

 

I'm pretty sure that the Tom Holland Spider-Man movies are considered MCU canon. However, even though Charlie and Vincent are being brought over to the MCU from Netflix, I don't believe that any of the events of the Netflix shows are considered MCU canon. As far as I'm aware, we don't have any unambiguous statements about these issues of canonicity from Kevin Feige, but this is what I get from reading between all the lines of what he has said (and done) over the years.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I read somewhere that Disney is planning more seasons of the Netflix shows so maybe at least some are considered canon.  I'd just pretend Iron Fist and the Defenders show never happened though, like Highlander II

[Bazza]

1 hour ago, zslane said:

Also, isn't Superman referenced in the dialog of Eternals?

 

I'm pretty sure that the Tom Holland Spider-Man movies are considered MCU canon. However, even though Charlie and Vincent are being brought over to the MCU from Netflix, I don't believe that any of the events of the Netflix shows are considered MCU canon. As far as I'm aware, we don't have any unambiguous statements about these issues of canonicity from Kevin Feige, but this is what I get from reading between all the lines of what he has said (and done) over the years.

Here is the statement that you are looking for, THE STORY OF MARVEL STUDIOS THE MAKING OF THE MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE. 
https://www.abramsbooks.com/product/story-of-marvel-studios_9781419732447/

 

From the publicity at the time of publication I remember that Agent Carter is MCU canon, Agents of Shield is not. 

[Bazza]

1 hour ago, Pariah said:

Canon is hard to maintain over 20 some odd movies and a bunch of TV series. I mean, Tony Stark referred to Dad Bod Thor as Lebowski; if Lebowski exists in the MCU, how did Tony never realize that Obadiah Stane looks an awful lot like him?

Many of these statements would be considered throwaway and not indicative of canonicity. Ie the audience would make more of them than they should. 

[Bazza]

‘Spider-Man: No Way Home’ Becomes First Pandemic-Era Movie to Smash $1 Billion Milestone Globally
https://variety.com/2021/film/box-office/spiderman-billion-dollars-box-office-pandemic-1235143308/

[Bazza]

20 hours ago, Ternaugh said:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/06/entertainment/daredevil-casting-charlie-cox/index.html

https://gizmodo.com/vincent-donofrio-on-wilson-fisks-hawkeye-return-he-wa-1848271376

https://www.cinemablend.com/interviews/hawkeyes-vincent-donofrio-explains-mcu-kingpins-daredevil-connections

cc @Starlord

[Christopher R Taylor]

Spider-Man making over a billion world wide draws a pretty stark comparison between it and the previous three MCU films.  Some characters are just more liked, and they also went with a more reliable cast and crew for this one as well.  The formula is this:

 

1) Pick a director who loves the material and is an established quality

2) Cast it with great talent

3) Write a solid, enjoyable story that honors the source material and the fans

4) Focus on entertainment, not checking off special identity and narrative boxes

 

When they stray from this, they stumble.  When they stick to it, they succeed.  All the other excuses and explanations offered fall short.

 

Oh, it also helps if you stick with beloved, time-tested characters.

[Starlord]

[Dr. MID-Nite]

5 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Spider-Man making over a billion world wide draws a pretty stark comparison between it and the previous three MCU films.  Some characters are just more liked, and they also went with a more reliable cast and crew for this one as well.  The formula is this:

 

1) Pick a director who loves the material and is an established quality

2) Cast it with great talent

3) Write a solid, enjoyable story that honors the source material and the fans

4) Focus on entertainment, not checking off special identity and narrative boxes

 

When they stray from this, they stumble.  When they stick to it, they succeed.  All the other excuses and explanations offered fall short.

 

Oh, it also helps if you stick with beloved, time-tested characters.

 

Well...we enjoyed Shang Chi and Eternals too. "shrugs"

[Matt the Bruins]

NONE of the year's MCU movies have been abject failures critically or at the box office, no matter how much certain people would like to impose that narrative. The previous three did quite well given that they were released during a global pandemic. But it's no surprise that they're being outdone by a movie featuring Marvel's most popular and well-known character, which is also the third in a series of well-received films about that character. I think the last two Avengers movies were the only safer bets in the entire franchise.

[Ranxerox]

I enjoyed NWH and thought it was well done, but I can't say that I enjoyed it any more than Black Widow, Shang-Chi or Eternals.  Marvel has been very consistent in it's quality as of late.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah you can't call any of them failures, by any definition but all four were released in the same "pandemic" (it ended last year, its just an epidemic now) and only one made big time money.  What's the difference?  That's what I was looking at.

 

Black Widow didn't make a lot of money (in Hollywood terms), Shang Chi similar.  I'm not sure Eternals made any money.  That shows a problem with the approach and characters.  Whether anyone enjoyed any of them or not, well that's subjective.  I liked the first Hulk movie quite a bit but it was a bit of a bomb.

[BoloOfEarth]

6 hours ago, Starlord said:

 

In a past job, I had two coworkers - one of whom liked sci-fi (particularly Star Trek), and the other of whom was a sports fan (specifically the Detroit Lions, so that should let you know how delusional he was).  The sports fan - we'll call him Leo - was making fun of the sci-fi fan - we'll call him Mark - and then Leo turns to me and asks my opinion.

 

I said, "Yeah, isn't it stupid those people who dress up in weird outfits, some of them paint their faces, they go on and on about their heroes and talk about weird minutia like any of it really matters?"

 

Leo is nodding happily and smiling hugely.  "Yeah, so stupid..."

 

I interjected, "I'm sorry, I was talking about sports fans."

 

Mark about busted a gut laughing, and Leo was speechless.  It was a perfect moment.

[Lord Liaden]

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

all four were released in the same "pandemic" (it ended last year, its just an epidemic now)

 

Sadly, that's not even close to the case. An epidemic is a disease that affects a large number of people within a community, population, or region. A pandemic is an epidemic that's spread over multiple countries or continents. We're still very much in the middle of a global pandemic, and it's worsening again thanks to the Omicron variant.

[dmjalund]

one difference is during the earlier movies, there was a low percentage of vaccinated individuals. Nowadays the percentage is relatively high so people feel more confidant going out and doing group activities again

[csyphrett]

9 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Yeah you can't call any of them failures, by any definition but all four were released in the same "pandemic" (it ended last year, its just an epidemic now) and only one made big time money.  What's the difference?  That's what I was looking at.

 

Black Widow didn't make a lot of money (in Hollywood terms), Shang Chi similar.  I'm not sure Eternals made any money.  That shows a problem with the approach and characters.  Whether anyone enjoyed any of them or not, well that's subjective.  I liked the first Hulk movie quite a bit but it was a bit of a bomb.

BW made 375 mill + whatever Disney concealed, Shang Chi made 417 mill, almost 418.  Eternals made just short of 400 mill. Venom 2 made about 500 mill. The Norton Hulk almost broke even at 265 mill 

 

Endgame made 2 billion and some change

CES

 

 

[BoloOfEarth]

A few hundred million here, a few hundred million there.  Pretty soon, you're talking *real* money.