DC Movies- if at first you don't succeed...

[Christopher R Taylor]

DC is really hit and miss in its movies.  They do really great (Batman Begins) or really awful (Catwoman) with huge tentpole movies that give the franchise more life for a while and a bunch of bad stuff in between.

 

I really like Snyder as a director, when he's doing the right sort of stuff for his style and mood.  He's just a terrible choice for doing DC's more mainstream characters.  The problem is that they live in constant terror of people associating them with the 60s Batman TV show again so they go way, crazy, stupid far overboard the other direction

[Bazza]

If DC Films decided to go ahead with a JL Dark, Snyder would be a good choice. 

[Lord Liaden]

I think that's what he's been trying to make all along.

[Grailknight]

Watched Snyder's JL last night but waited till this morning to post about it.

 

It's got all the highs and lows that I've come to expect from Snyder. It's very pretty and the combats and CGI are much better but the art direction is .... overly stylish and bordering on pretentious. It feels like the movie spends too much time displaying the heroes in epic poses and not flowing naturally. The actors move and talk like people who know the audience is watching at all times. 

 

I liked the expanded roles of Flash and Cyborg for the most part. Cyborg is used well and Flash is given more character depth. 

 

Bruce Wayne unfortunately has less screen time and Batman is less human for it.  Also Batman gets injured less than Flash? He should be and is a better more effective fighter at this stage in their careers but one of Flash's niches is being unhittable and he takes the most hits in the movie.

 

The storyline is better explained( It better have been, you had 4 freaking hours to work with) and it does much more with Steppenwolf's character and motivations. The added Darkseid and Apokolips cameos are good. 

 

The epilogue is nice at the beginning but falls prey to Snyder's grimdark leanings. If it was his idea for a sequel, I hope it never gets made. I'd see it eventually but the only money they'd get from me would be their share of my cable service.

 

So, overall this is a better movie than the theatrical version. It has less humor but more character and universe building and a more consistent tone. Not as good as Wonder Woman or Aquaman but way better than BvS.

 

 

 

[zslane]

7 hours ago, Bazza said:

If DC Films decided to go ahead with a JL Dark, Snyder would be a good choice. 

 

J.J. Abrams is heading up that project, and it is being developed as a series of solo movies, like the Zatana movie. I imagine that if those movies do well WB will greenlight a team movie at some point in the future.

[Greywind]

Well, first, they need to find someone that actually cares about the properties involved. From what I've seen from ST and SW, Abrams ain't it.

[Christopher R Taylor]

JJ Abrams should be demoted to second unit and effects direction.  He can't tell a story but his visuals are amazing

[Ranxerox]

14 hours ago, zslane said:

I think it is a bit disingenuous for people to call the theatrical version of the movie "Joss-tice League", as if Whedon was the visionary mastermind behind what we got. The real culprits were WB execs who couldn't keep their meddling fingers out of the pie, even when Snyder was in charge. Whedon was merely the knife with which they butchered what Snyder had begun. Geoff Johns gleefully engineered Snyder's removal and convinced Whedon to take the reins for a nice, fat paycheck. Whedon was never going to have the time or resources to make what anyone would truly call "his Justice League". His greatest failure, in my view, was in agreeing to the job in the first place, and putting himself in a position to take all the blame for what ended up on screen.

 

The fact that the "Snyder Cut" is, by many accounts, merely different--but not necessarily better--is testament to the fact that the movie was flawed at its foundations, and that no amount of re-working was ever going to save it and make it great. It seems to me that any glowing praise for it is coming primarily from DC fanboys who are desperate for a win here. I would not be surprised if the Snyder Cut fades from memory and is forgotten in a few years as WB moves on to the next series of disconnected movies of inconsistent quality.

 

The original theatrical release had a Rotten Tomatoes critic score of 40% and an audience 71%, whereas Zack Snyder's version scores are 73% and 96% respectively.  I have read review of Zack Snyder's version that ultimately give it a thumbs down, but still call it better than the theatrical release.

 

Of course to call it better than the theatrical release is to damn with faint praise.  I prefer to praise it with faint damnation, and say that it isn't as good as Avengers: Endgame.  I found Snyder's version to be a good movie on it's own merits.  However, where A:E gained lots of power by referencing back to plot points made previous Marvel movies, both versions of Justice League are hampered WB rush to create something like The Avengers without laying down the groundwork.   As a result the movie has to do bunch of heavy lifting that should have been done by an Aquaman movie and a Flash movie and a Cyborg movie.  IMO, the Zack Snyder does a fairly good job with this lifting, and the DC universe would be in a much stronger position if it had been the film released back in 2017.  Nonetheless, it could have been much better. 

[Pattern Ghost]

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

He can't tell a story but his visuals are amazing

 

If you like lens flare.

[Matt the Bruins]

I think it's better than the theatrical release. It eliminates the tonal whiplash, Flash's buffoonery, constant quipping from inappropriate characters, and the tacked-on scenes of rescuing Russian civilians. But it remains a Snyder movie—full of ponderous sequences that are laughable in their pretension; cold, sketchy characterization; shot through a filter that makes everything look like it's covered in gray soot; and slow motion, OMG so much slooooowwwww motion. It also has very little of the warmth and camaraderie that Whedon added along with his pratfalls and unfunny jokes.

[slikmar]

4 hours ago, Grailknight said:

Also Batman gets injured less than Flash? He should be and is a better more effective fighter at this stage in their careers but one of Flash's niches is being unhittable and he takes the most hits in the movie.

I remember in the animated series, which everyone holds up, when Grod was messing with everyone's heads, The team being annoyed with Supes for taking on to much and Flash saying that he was fast enough to not get hit, to which Supes replies "but you always do, and every hit I take is one my friends dont". 

It sort of is like Wolverine (different but similar) in that he is reputed to be an incredible fighter (Captain America and Iron Fist level) with heightened speed and strength, but because everyone wants to show his healing ability, he takes a beating all the time.

The above discussions make me think of the best George Lucas films, where he wrote them and then Spielberg or someone else directed them. It is too bad we can't get a true collaboration with Whedon doing the character stuff and Snyder doing the action/filming but with Whedon's input.

One thing I liked in the comics a few years back after they upped WW power level was that she was still not quite on Supes level BUT her skill made her an equal. I remember a fight with the 2 of them against Zod and I believe Ursa. Clark would hold his own and Diana would be winning because she was a better fighter and Zod and Ursa weren't at full strength. But it also showed that given equality, Zod would beat Clark straight up as he was much better skilled. It was during a sequence of books where Diana was trying to convince Clark to learn to fight.

[archer]

2 hours ago, Greywind said:

Well, first, they need to find someone that actually cares about the properties involved. From what I've seen from ST and SW, Abrams ain't it.

 

There should be some system for giving you a thousand upvotes for such an absolutely correct and insightful statement.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

It sort of is like Wolverine (different but similar) in that he is reputed to be an incredible fighter (Captain America and Iron Fist level) with heightened speed and strength, but because everyone wants to show his healing ability, he takes a beating all the time.

 

Yeah its kind of sad because it makes Wolverine look like a stupid berserker instead of a deadly martial artist.

 

Although if I were writing him, I'd portray him as a terrifyingly deadly fighter because he cares nothing about blocking or defense at all, its just 100% total offense because he can take the hit and heals so fast.

[Starlord]

27 minutes ago, slikmar said:

The above discussions make me think of the best George Lucas films, where he wrote them and then Spielberg or someone else directed them. It is too bad we can't get a true collaboration with Whedon doing the character stuff and Snyder doing the action/filming but with Whedon's input.

 Given the Buffy allegations and reports of abuse by JL cast members, Whedon should probably stay away from actors for the foreseeable future.

[zslane]

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

JJ Abrams should be demoted to second unit and effects direction.  He can't tell a story but his visuals are amazing

 

A quality he shares with Zach Snyder. I'd say WB has a "type".

 

1 hour ago, slikmar said:

 Supes replies "but you always do, and every hit I take is one my friends dont". 

 

Spoken like a true MMORPG tank. I'm curious when (what year was it?) Supes said that.

[slikmar]

27 minutes ago, zslane said:

Spoken like a true MMORPG tank. I'm curious when (what year was it?) Supes said that.

As I said, was in one of the Animated Series episodes from the early 2000s. Grod was subtly manipulating the JL to fight amongst themselves. It was after the Legion of Doom formed.

[Old Man]

6 hours ago, Greywind said:

Well, first, they need to find someone that actually cares about the properties involved. From what I've seen from ST and SW, Abrams ain't it.

 

I rather liked two of Abrams' three ST films, which totaled over $1B at the box office.  I note, however, that he didn't write any of them.  He did (help) write Episodes VII and IX, which were awful.  So I will continue to believe he's a good director that should not be given any input on the script.

 

Anyway, back to the DC thread.

[Greywind]

21 minutes ago, Old Man said:

 

I rather liked two of Abrams' three ST films, which totaled over $1B at the box office.  I note, however, that he didn't write any of them.  He did (help) write Episodes VII and IX, which were awful.  So I will continue to believe he's a good director that should not be given any input on the script.

 

 

They generally lacked the "thinking" aspect, which is one thing that set Star Trek apart.

[Lord Liaden]

I don't recommend watching this unless you've already seen the Snyder cut or don't care about spoilers. Otherwise I do recommend it.

 

 

[Spence]

10 hours ago, zslane said:

developed as a series of solo movies, like the Zatana movie.

 

 

You just ruined my day.  Magical sorcerer type heroes are one of my secret pleasures.  With the MCU when they announced Doctor Strange I was over the moon and was searching for news and spoilers for months and could hardly wait to see.  But with DC I am all "Noooooooooo! they are going to ruin her!". 

 

I really like Zatana, bummer.

 

[Lord Liaden]

That's exactly the comparison that DC has to overcome. Marvel Studios has developed a reputation for consistent entertainment. They've had very few outright clunkers, and at this point the audience assumes that a new Marvel movie will at minimum be fun, and may even be exceptional. But the DC theater audience has been burned more often than satisfied, and they've grown wary of spending their movie budget on new releases.

[Spence]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

That's exactly the comparison that DC has to overcome. Marvel Studios has developed a reputation for consistent entertainment. They've had very few outright clunkers, and at this point the audience assumes that a new Marvel movie will at minimum be fun, and may even be exceptional. But the DC theater audience has been burned more often than satisfied, and they've grown wary of spending their movie budget on new releases.

 

Spot on.

 

I have pretty much given up on there ever being a Harley Quinn movie.  One of the non-Hero characters I really liked before they grunge slapped the character into....errr.....I lack the word.

[aylwin13]

11 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

That's exactly the comparison that DC has to overcome. Marvel Studios has developed a reputation for consistent entertainment. They've had very few outright clunkers, and at this point the audience assumes that a new Marvel movie will at minimum be fun, and may even be exceptional. But the DC theater audience has been burned more often than satisfied, and they've grown wary of spending their movie budget on new releases.

Hell, I'm afraid to watch BvS, JL, SS, et al. And I have them on my DVR for free from the premium channel preview weekends. I don't even want to waste time, or brain cells, on these things.  

[Greywind]

"Nothing stays good in this (Snyder's) world." ~ Superman

[pinecone]

17 hours ago, Spence said:

 

 

You just ruined my day.  Magical sorcerer type heroes are one of my secret pleasures.  With the MCU when they announced Doctor Strange I was over the moon and was searching for news and spoilers for months and could hardly wait to see.  But with DC I am all "Noooooooooo! they are going to ruin her!". 

 

I really like Zatana, bummer.

 

Ok here is the pitch...Zatana is like a super hero, or something, she wears fishnets and booty shorts! We can shoot a lots of scenes in Dutch perspective. The fans will Love this!