zslane Posted September 29, 2019 Report Share Posted September 29, 2019 Well, J.J. Abrams kinda ruined Star Trek and Star Wars. This does not bode well for the tattered remnants of the DCEU. Everyone, including Warner Brothers, should just dispense with the idea that there is, or ever will be, a single cohesive DC cinematic universe. Without a WB/DC equivalent to Kevin Feige it's just not gonna happen. And no, a loosely (barely) connected collection of superhero movies do not a cinematic universe make. WB/DC would be better off just sticking to what they do best: animated tv shows and video game licensing, and leave the cinematic universes to the professionals. Pattern Ghost and Armory 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted September 29, 2019 Report Share Posted September 29, 2019 21 minutes ago, zslane said: Well, J.J. Abrams kinda ruined Star Trek and Star Wars. This does not bode well for the tattered remnants of the DCEU. Everyone, including Warner Brothers, should just dispense with the idea that there is, or ever will be, a single cohesive DC cinematic universe. Without a WB/DC equivalent to Kevin Feige it's just not gonna happen. And no, a loosely (barely) connected collection of superhero movies do not a cinematic universe make. WB/DC would be better off just sticking to what they do best: animated tv shows and video game licensing, and leave the cinematic universes to the professionals. The thing that gets me about J.J. Abrams is that he explicitly will say in interviews that he doesn't honor the source material then goes on to make movies which crap all over the source material. I have no clue as to why Warner Brothers thinks J.J. Abrams will save DC by crapping all over DC's superheroes. The problem so far has been that their superhero films have been crapping all over their superheroes. So their solution to end that is bring in the "self-proclaimed king of crapping all over source material" so that their movies will stop crapping all over their source material? < boggles > Armory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slikmar Posted September 29, 2019 Report Share Posted September 29, 2019 I would disagree with the statement he ruined those 2 franchises. I liked Force Awakens and thought the reboot of Star Trek was needed and decent and liked the casting of those characters. He wasn't in charge of Last Jedi, someone whose whole purpose seemed to be to deconstruct everything done prior was. Now, him being in charge of the DCEU, I have no idea if he has any ties to the comics, so its a wait an see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armory Posted September 29, 2019 Report Share Posted September 29, 2019 Abrams' first Star Trek movie wasn't terrible, but archer's right, the guy doesn't understand what makes Star Trek Star Trek. HIs aren't Star Trek movies: they don't examine the human condition; they don't turn a critical eye toward social issues or even posit a positive view of the future. They're slam-bang popcorn action flicks with Star Trek trappings. The Force Awakens wasn't a terrible movie but it's really just a remake, so he gets scant credit from me for that. His production company might find a way to make some good DC movies but I wouldn't let him personally near one. Christopher R Taylor and Pattern Ghost 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted September 29, 2019 Report Share Posted September 29, 2019 Neither the first Star Trek reboot film nor The Force Awakens built a strong foundation for a franchise. In that sense he "kinda ruined" them, at least in my view and the view of many others. Handing him the reins of the clinically dead DCEU is not a solution, it is a eulogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ternaugh Posted September 29, 2019 Report Share Posted September 29, 2019 While we can hope for a brighter take on Superman, I'm afraid that we'll find out that it's just lens-flare. Matt the Bruins, zslane, drunkonduty and 1 other 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted September 29, 2019 Report Share Posted September 29, 2019 I don't think there's any need for a shared carefully constructed cinematic universe. Just make good, fun movies, and once in a while you can have crossovers, who cares if they're all part of one big ongoing story or not? assault and Lord Liaden 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 IMO that's what some of the best Marvel movies have done -- present quality self-contained stories, and any connections to the wider setting are either logical in context or incidental bits of color. Not for the Avengers movies, of course, since their whole point was to cross over characters as part of a larger narrative. Ternaugh, Spence and slikmar 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said: I don't think there's any need for a shared carefully constructed cinematic universe. Just make good, fun movies, and once in a while you can have crossovers, who cares if they're all part of one big ongoing story or not? People just keep saying things like this.... It is like they forget it is 2019 and we are talking about Hollywood... Old Man and Lawnmower Boy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 Quote It is like they forget it is 2019 and we are talking about Hollywood Yeah, well there is that. Let's set the wayback machine shall we? 1999, what was out in theaters? Fight Club Being John Malkovich The Matrix Blast From the Past Office Space The Mummy... 1989 New York Stories Christmas Vacation Major League Say Anything Batman Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade License to Kill Akira... 1979 Mad Max The Warriors Alien Quadrophenia The Jerk Star Trek: The Motion Picture... 1969 True Grit Midnight Cowboy The Italian Job Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid... Well, you get the idea death tribble 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 What happened to 2009? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Old Man said: What happened to 2009? shhhh....... don't remind us...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 I went back 20 years because that's about how long its been since they've consistently put out good films. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 After the first Avengers movie came out, the template for a successful cinematic superhero franchise was drawn, and WB/DC accepted the challenge to do the same for their own properties, believing that "Anything Marvel can do we can do better," something they've taken as institutional dogma since the 1960s. It is only in the wake of miserable failure and an inability to even come close to what Marvel accomplished that they--and their fans--adopted the "Okay, well, we don't have to do what Marvel does," position. Conceding defeat to Marvel was never DC's way in the past, but apparently it is now since they realize they simply can't compete in the cinematic franchise space. I guess once you realize you can't win, the best you can hope to do in order to save face is pretend that you aren't even trying to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 DC had the disadvantage that they had to live up to what Marvel had already accomplished. You get to experiment a lot more in comics where the expectations are low. Probably movies too - Supers performed so well before Iron Man, right? And compare it to the Hulk movie released around the same time - Superheroes were not yet the Golden Child of Cinema. Mark Waid was once asked how he made the Wally West Flash so popular in the mid-'80s. Simple - he could do what he wanted, because no one expected much of the book. Flash had already been cancelled in the recent past. He stated he could not do it now, because the editors and owners would not approve significant changes to the character, or taking other significant creative risks. I believe MCU got a lot less studio oversight and interference early on than DC ended up with once the stakes had been raised. drunkonduty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said: I believe MCU got a lot less studio oversight and interference early on than DC ended up with once the stakes had been raised. IIRC there was some kind of power struggle between Feige and the suits sometime around the first Thor, in which Feige somehow prevailed. That set the stage for the first Cap and then Avengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Old Man said: IIRC there was some kind of power struggle between Feige and the suits sometime around the first Thor, in which Feige somehow prevailed. That set the stage for the first Cap and then Avengers. Ike Perlmutter, the guy who owned Marvel, was a producer on the movies. He didn't want any movies with a female lead or ethnic heroes like the Black Panther, and he wanted the Inhumans pushed up front. Feige got the movie company placed directly under Disney and had Perlmutter transferred to the television side which at that time was Agents of Shield and the Inhumans television show. I don't know if he had anything to do with the Netflix shows but Scott Buck did the first season of Iron Fist and then went to the Inhumans, and my understanding is both things were a Charley Foxtrot before he brought his own perspective into it. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 So I guess we're pretty much done talking about DC films then, and we're going to just jam politics and personal anger in here? Guess I'm done with this topic too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 On 9/29/2019 at 2:44 AM, Lord Liaden said: I get the impression that many moviegoers, including myself, are taking each DC film on a wait-and-see basis. Comic-fandom response, critical response, and popular box-office have been highly irregular for those movies, and Wonder Woman is the only one for which those three factors solidly aligned. I think you're right. Most folks TRUST the MCU movie verse, it earned it. DCU ? Mixed bag and thus more caution, though Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam bought it a lot of good will with me. Of course, the Joker Movie coming out has it's own problems now... causing controversy and concern https://www.cbsnews.com/news/warner-bros-says-joker-is-not-an-endorsement-of-violence-2019-09-25/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 1, 2019 Report Share Posted October 1, 2019 Apparently this dropped today death tribble 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 7 hours ago, Hermit said: I think you're right. Most folks TRUST the MCU movie verse, it earned it. DCU ? Mixed bag and thus more caution, though Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam bought it a lot of good will with me. Of course, the Joker Movie coming out has it's own problems now... causing controversy and concern https://www.cbsnews.com/news/warner-bros-says-joker-is-not-an-endorsement-of-violence-2019-09-25/ I wonder if discussions of the movie and of what I refer to as "Joker Syndrome" (the belief that any mentally ill person you meet is an inherent threat) belong in another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slikmar Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 I love Margot Robbie in that role. She just does such a great job of the casual crazy for it. It's a shame, because I would have loved to see her play her Harley off of Heath's Joker. She does what he does, seems to speak normal and calmly, but as you listen you realize she is seriously scary crazy. Movie looks like could be a fun violent romp, will probably see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zslane Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 I'm totally underwhelmed by the trailer. I'm not sure I would even bother to watch it for free on Netflix (not that it will ever show up there, but you get my point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, zslane said: I'm totally underwhelmed by the trailer. I'm not sure I would even bother to watch it for free on Netflix (not that it will ever show up there, but you get my point). Yep. HQ is one of my favorite characters and I really enjoyed BoP. But this grungy re-imagining is a hard pass. I do think Margot Robbie could have played an awesome HQ given the chance. But that was destroyed when they took DC down grungy lane and abandoned the actual characters and pretty much everything that made them popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 That trailer completely killed my buzz for this movie. Yes, we get Harley in all her glory, but all the other female roles seem totally miscast and out of any recognizable character with their comic counterparts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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